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Stream of Consciousness, Episode 6.07

The Eye

Oh, these guys. They are gonna run me down and back up over me before this season is over.

 

So, I owe ya’ll an apology. Firstly, I saw the previews for this week at the end of last week’s episode and since I start writing these things all juiced up on literally just having seen…, well, I didn’t separate out what was actually in the episode itself and what was in the preview—namely Sam sans soul. So I interspersed my interpretation of episode 6.06 with the ‘knowledge’ that Sam didn’t have his soul. I’m sorry that last week’s ramble was a bit of a spoiler zone if you hadn’t seen the previews. And as a spoiler-phobe, well, I should know better. *bad Gaelic*

Secondly, in my replies to some of you who were aghast at Dean hitting Sam repeatedly at the end of the episode, I said that it was a relief to me for a number of reasons: 1) Dean wasn’t being a doormat, rolling over and giving in and saying it’s okay, Sammy, we’ll work it out, 2) Dean had been ‘wronged’ by Sam on multiple levels, from being kept in the dark about Sam being back from Hell to Sam allowing Dean to be turned into a vamp and finally, 3) Dean was reacting to his brother and the anger he felt there and wasn’t saying, essentially, screw it and putting a bullet in the head of a thing that he figured was a monster—therefore giving me hope that there was a chance for healing in their relationship as brothers.

What I failed to take into account was that at the end of last week’s episode, all we (and Dean) truly, honestly knew was that Sam didn’t “feel anything” and feared nothing. That Sam knew something was wrong with him and had known it for a long time and had basically…ignored it. Which means…Dean wasn’t entirely convinced that the being he was punching into unconsciousness was really his brother. Sam said, it’s me, but Veritas—the goddess of truth—said that Sam wasn’t human. Dean couldn’t bring himself to stab and kill this…thing…that looked and talked and sounded like his brother. But he could beat “it” into submission until he could figure out if it really was Sam….and if all of the tangled, heartbreaking emotions he had when it came to Sam even mattered anymore.

I had that epiphany about Wednesday—after I’d replied to all of your wonderful, insightful comments, and I knew it was too late to do anything about it, so I’m starting off this week’s ramble setting the stage of “this is where my mind was.”

Okay, so we good? Good.

I skipped over the THENs so if there was some kind of kick-ass, classic rock montage that I missed, let me know. We start by literally looking through Sam’s blurry-eyed vision as he comes to after getting his ass handed to him by his older brother. He’s tied to a chair, face bloody, and totally confused. Castiel is peering at him curiously and Dean is staying away—on the other side of the room—looking very serious and grim.

Cas is asking questions, like has he been feverish. Sam’s all, wha?

Cas: Is he speaking in tongues? Are you speaking in tongues?

The answer is no, but it was the delivery that was kinda funny. Like Cas wasn’t sure if he was still allowed to speak directly to The Sam Thing or if he should talk to Dean. And…call me totally naïve, but I wonder why he asked about speaking in tongues? Would that mean…what? Possessed? Angelic? Devoutly religious? Touched by God? Multilingual? *shrugs*

Sam’s all, dude, are you diagnosing me? And Dean turns to him, his entire body tense, his face pulled tight into a frown.

Dean: You better hope he can. You think there’s a clinic for people who just pop out of Hell wrong? He asks, you answer, then you shut your hole.

He’s treating Sam like a case—just like Bobby told him to. Not like his brother who is in trouble and needs help, but like something they haven’t figured out yet and he may have to take down when they do. I honestly think it was the only way he could compartmentalize everything that had just happened—between Lisa handing him her truth and Sam handing him his truth, Dean went into survival mode and down shifted into hunter-gear.

Cas is taking Sam’s pulse and asking him how much he sleeps.

Sam: I don’t. Not since I got back.

Um…holy crap. And I thought my sleep patterns were messed up.

Dean explodes about that and Sam agrees that yes, it was weird, but he just didn’t tell Dean. It’s hard to tell if he means “I didn’t tell you because I didn’t want to worry you,” or “I didn’t tell you because I didn’t want you to freak out on me,” or “I didn’t tell you because…it never occurred to me.”

Cas asks him what he’s feeling—not the physical sensation of the beating, but really, truly feeling. Sam’s like, ummmm…. So, Cas gives him a belt to bite on, tells him that “this will be unpleasant” and if he has a happy place, he should go there. Then he does that arm-in-the-chest thing we saw him do to Aaron a few episodes back.

Sam groans and writhes in pain and I even winced. Which…I don’t generally wince when Sam’s hurt. Cas pulls his arm out and Dean faces him, his expression worried. Sam is gasping for breath in the background.

Dean: You find anything?

Cas: No.

Dean: Is that…good news?

Cas: I’m afraid not. Physically, he’s perfectly healthy. But his soul is gone.

Not exactly earth-shattering news since we found that out last week, but at least we know that it’s Sam—or as Sam as he can be without his soul—and when he was resurrected, his soul stayed behind.

Sam’s like, uhhhh….

Dean (not quite able to wrap his mind around this news): I’m sorry. One more time. Like I’m five.

Hee. That and his open handed seriously…help me out here gesture made me smile.

Cas breaks it down for him and surmises that Sam’s soul is still in the cage with Lucifer and Michael…which had me wondering if they were going this route, if they would go the route of his soul being damaged by all this extra time in the cage and what that would mean when it was returned to him (as I’m sure it will eventually be). I mean, his body and his brain have been cage-free for over a year now. What happens when that is meshed with a (possibly) damaged soul?

Also—and this is just an aside—I noticed something interesting that I hadn’t picked up on before. Cas says that his soul is back in the cage with Michael and Lucifer—not in Hell. Almost as if the cage…isn’t in Hell. But in a separate place. *ponders*

Dean asks Cas (with Sam sitting right there, looking all of 12—a beaten, bloody 12, sure, but little-boy-ish all the same) if Sam is even still Sam without his soul and Cas simply says that he raises an “interesting philosophical question.” One that has been explored a smidge here on my journal. And one that’s not really truly answered (at least to my satisfaction), yet, on the show.

Because…Sam has his memories and he does feel—he illustrates that he feels anger and happiness enough to lash out or smile automatically. He feels pride and accomplishment. I think he really is Sam. But…he’s just empty. He’s like…Sam-lite. The confusing part, though, is how they have him act empty inside for some things and reactive with others.

So, if our brains, as some have said, define who we are, then I don’t get why he’s suddenly acting so empty, remorseless, uncaring (as if his essence is gone). If our souls define who we are, then I don’t get why he behaves as if Dean matters to him and that Gramps betrayed them later on in the episode (as if he feels something for them). Maybe it’s a combination of both—logic (the head) and heart (the soul) connecting to make the whole person. With only one or the other, you’re only a shadow of yourself.

Eh, too much to answer right now. I’m sure a true student of psychology would have a field day picking apart my reasoning on feelings and personality and essence of a person.  I’ll continue to ponder as I work through this. Plus, I’m confident someone will be able to help me wrap my mind around it with their comments.

So, anyway, Dean wants Cas to just go to the cage to get Sam’s soul back—after all, he rescued Dean, right? Cas is like, it took several angels to rescue Dean and he wasn’t as well guarded. Guess no one wants to go up against Lucifer and Michael. Plus there’s that whole Civil War thing….

Meanwhile, during all of this, Sam is calmly loosening his ropes while simultaneously asking to be untied. Dean’s like, what. ever. He’s not even going to let him out of this room.

Sam: I’m not some…psycho. I didn’t want you to get hurt. I was just trying to stop the vamps. I get it. I’m sorry. It won’t happen again.

He sounds more…bored than remorseful. Like, enough, let’s move on and kill more bad things already.

Dean’s still “no way in Hell” and so Sam just stands up—untied—and says that Dean can’t hold him. Here, panic room, wherever. He’s stuck with the soulless guy, so, let’s fix it.

He has barely any reaction to the news that he has no soul. I mean, except for that one moment where he looked like a little kid while the grownups talked about him, he was just…*yawn*. This was one of those good moments when we see how not having a soul affects Sam-the-person. Far cry from the angst-ridden, fear-filled promise he drew out of his brother to kill him if he went darkside back in Playthings.

Dean’s jaw is so tight I’m surprised he didn’t break his teeth.

Dean: I’m gonna be watching every move you make.

Sam: Fine. Sounds about right to me.

Not like, what? Why? Or even yeah, you jerk, I figured you would. More like, I would watch me, too. I know I’m not right. And I pulled you into this…maybe for this very reason. So, do it. I want you to.

Dean tells Cas to heal Sam’s face, which he does and then they shift into, okay, fine, let’s fix it mode. Dean wants a list of the players with enough mojo to spring someone out of the cage.

Cas is like…yeah, I got nothin’. He wants to know what clues Sam might have. Sam says he only has one: Gramps. So, they head to the compound. Walking in, they see a bunch of hunter-types all polishing their weapons and making bullets and other…hunter-type…things.

Dean: Did Gramps throw a BBQ and leave us off the invite list?

Christian comes up to them and is all “Sam!” and *hugs* then looks at Dean and gets all sober with a, “Dean.”

Dean: Hello, Newman.

BWAH! I couldn’t help it. He caught me off-guard. I burst out laughing and scared my dogs. Hee!

Sam asks where Gramps is and Newm—er, I mean Christian motions toward the back. They crash into Gramps’ office with the grace of Lenny and Squiggy.

Total aside, but Mitch Pileggi has been busy lately. He was just on Sons of Anarchy a week ago reprising his role as the white supremacist, Darby. And he’s back again as Grandpa Campbell. No moss on this guy.

Dean is in a take-no-prisoners mood and is looking for answers. He barks demands at Gramps, asking him about the day he got back, his tone clear that he has had it up to here with sh*t, thank you very much. Gramps is like, we’ve been over this.

Dean: Recap it for our wingman.

Ha—wingman!

Cas is standing next to Gramps.

Gramps: Castiel, right? You’re…scrawnier than I pictured.

Cas: This is a vessel. My true form is the size of your Chrysler Building.

Guess size matters after all. Plus? I love Dean’s expressions when Cas is around—tells a very clear story of what he’s thinking.

Dean: All right, quit bragging. (Turns his attention to Gramps) So…you were dead. And then….

Gramps: And POW! I was on Elton ridge.

There’s some silent eye-communication and Cas soul-checks Gramps—whose howls of pain bring Christian running with gun-in-hand. Dean stops him, though, saying, “Angel cavity check.”

Gramps reassures Christian that it’s okay—even though he’s gasping from pain—and Christian leaves. Gramps turns to Dean and Sam all, WTF? Cas says he has his soul. Gramps is like, of course I have a soul—oohhhhh. Apparently he knew something was off with Sam, but he didn’t know exactly what.

Either that, or he’s a pretty darn good actor. I haven’t all the way decided if he truly knew about Sam’s soul. I have my suspicions, but I’ll get to that.

He does tell Sam that while Sam’s a great hunter, sometimes he scares him. Meanwhile, Cas is doing that ear-cocked-to-the-sky thing and says he’s gotta go.

Dean: You’re leaving?!

Cas: I’m in the middle of a Civil War.

Dean: You better tear up the attic and find something to help Sam.

Cas: Of course. Because your problems always come first.

My, my, Cas. Learned a bit of sarcasm, have you?

Dean gives him this funny look just as he disappears. But I think he needs to check himself a bit as far as Cas is concerned. I get that he feels the angels owe them (and I don’t disagree), but Cas—while a full angel now—isn’t like the rest of them. He’s the closest thing to a real friend that Dean’s ever had—and I think he should treat him with more respect.  

I don’t think he realizes he’s not being respectful, though. And I don’t say that in the “show him deference because he’s a Heavenly creature and very powerful” type of respect. I say it in the way I show all my friends respect: that I’m not more important than they are, and that what they say, feel, and do matters to me.

I think he thinks Cas is an angel, this is happening to Sam because of the angels, therefore, Cas should fix it or turn himself inside out trying. Now that the question has been resolved in Dean’s mind that this is really his brother, he’s right back in the nothing is as important as Sam mindset. And, quite frankly, I don’t think he gives a crap about the war in Heaven. Not that I blame him. I think—and this is just me—that he wouldn’t care if the angels killed each other off in their selfish battle for power and just left the humans alone.

The thing I think he forgets, though, is how that would affect Cas—how it does affect Cas. I think he takes Cas for granted a bit and I’m worried that there’s going to come a moment when that’s made clear to him in a very painful way.

Dean turns to Gramps: What’s with the book club?

Gramps is all evasive about having a hunt and through some narrow-eyed gazing and deductive reasoning, Sam picks up that they have a lead on the Alpha Vamp and are going after them. He’s like, “Why didn’t you call me?” But Dean realizes that it’s because of him—he doesn’t think Gramps trusts him with ‘big game’ like the Alpha Vamp. Gramps says that’s not true, so Dean calls his bluff and says they’re in.

Gramps: I just don’t know you. Not like I know Sam.

Heh. Right. I don’t think anyone can say they know Sam aside from Dean. And I think right now even Dean’s questioning that. He knew Sam. He’s not so sure he knows him now. Dean tells Gramps that he can call the play, Dean will just listen.

Dean: I trust you.

The guys step outside.

Dean: I don’t trust him. (HA!) Dude’s hiding something. I can feel it. And if you weren’t RoboSam, you’d feel it, too.

I yo-yo’d with how some of their dialog hit me in this episode. A little part of me was like, ouch, harsh, Dean. But then I realized…Sam wouldn’t care. He doesn’t care. Not about words like that. The guy that got twisted up about his brother thinking he was a freak for having death visions had left the building. Dean’s method of dealing with an unknown—an unknown that scares him to death because it’s something that used to be a known…a very well-known—is simply accepted as Dean’s way.

Sam: Huh. You. Saying you don’t trust family.

Well…why should he? I don’t get this loose idea from the Campbells (and, apparently, Sam) that just because you have a label of family and share a little DNA makes it so you’re automatically trusted. I can’t honestly say I trust a single one of my blood relatives (outside of my daughter, that is). Love ‘em? Sure. Trust ‘em? Not so much.

Trust is tough, man. Once it’s lost, it’s the hardest thing in the world to gain back. And it’s not something you can get back and be set. Once you’ve lost trust, you are forever in the reclaim game. Doubt will always linger. No matter how much we may want to deny it, doubt is there. Sam’s done a lot to lose Dean’s trust—and the Campbells never had it in the first place.

Dean says they should blend in and see what they can find out. So, they go back in where the Scooby Gang is getting all weaponed-up and Sam sits down with one of the peeps while Dean causally makes his way down a hall to a locked door. He picks the lock and starts to go in, when he’s busted by Christian. *snarl*

C: You lost?

D: Needed to make a phone call…looking for privacy.

C: In Samuel’s locked office?

D: Wasn’t locked.

C: Who are you calling?

Jeeze! Nosy, much?

D: Your wife. Let her know I’m not gonna make it over tonight.

Heh.

Christian approaches and is all “I’m done playing nice” and Dean fires back a “you mean you’re a bigger knob than you’ve been letting on?” They snarl at each other, Christian poking at Dean by saying he’s been doing his job and the only action Dean has seen is between his slut of a girlfriend’s legs. Annnd, that’s enough for Dean. He slams Christian against the wall and his jaw muscle is doing that dance thing that just has me…unf.

Christian: You sure you want to come with us tomorrow? Accidents happen.

Dean pauses just long enough for me to fill in the silence with a shout at the TV something to the effect of, “Bite me.” Dean’s reply was much better, though. “Don’t worry. I got your back.”

Heh.

So, pre-dawn, they all fire up the cars and head out. They stop just over the hill from a house that Gramps had tagged as the Alpha’s hang out. Knowing what I know now, I’m wondering if he’s been handed these locations, or if he really is as good of a hunter as he claims he is. Gramps splits everyone up and hands out the orders—making Dean and Gwen stay behind to pick up the stragglers. Dean visibly resists this and Gramps challenges him.

G: You got a problem with that?

D (practically biting off the words): No, sir.

Gwen: I’m in the rear with the reject?!

Dean gives her a really?? look. Sam pauses as they head out and says, “Don’t worry. It’s fine.”

See, this is one of those head-tilt moments for me. Was he just saying that to try to keep Dean from doing something stupid? Tactical maneuver if you will? Because OldSam would have done that, too, but it would have been out of concern for his brother because he wouldn’t want him to worry. But if Sam can’t feel those things, then…. *sigh* Not that it matters to the plot or storyline, really. Just…I’m trying to connect to Sam’s character and it’s hard!

Dean: It’s not fine. You’re not fine. Nothing’s fine.

He pinches the bridge of his nose. It’s hard to stay on guard all the time. *pats his tired shoulder* “Just go.”

Gwen apologizes to Dean for the reject comment and says she’s tired of getting left behind just because she reminds Gramps of Mary. Dean’s like, “Well, you do speak your mind.” Gwen smiles slightly and decides to take that as a compliment. Just then a twig snaps and as they turn to the sound, they’re jumped by a vamp. Dean’s knocked down and Gwen beheads the vamp.

He’s really not having luck with the vamps lately.

She’s all, “You’re welcome,” when they hear gunshots. Dean takes off while Gwen stays where she’s told, protesting the whole time. He gets to an iron gate that is locked, but when he looks up to see if he can get over the top, he sees a weather vane with a stone crow on top and has a flashback to that Freaky-Assed Vamp Dream. We knew it would come into play again, right?

He makes his way around the dilapidated brick wall and finds another way in through scattered bodies—with and without their heads. He hears someone yelling and follows the noise around to the side of a shed where he sees the Campbell crew leading a man with a hood over his head out to the A-Team van. He sees the man’s hands—black man with long fingernails and again flashes to his dream. The Campbell crew—including Sam—are carrying jars of dead man’s blood (hereafter known as DMB because it’s hard to write ‘dead’ and not ‘dean’).

He hurries back—just missing being seen by Sam—and gets back to Gwen just as the crew returns to them. Gwen doesn’t know where he went, but she covers for him, then asks how it went.

Gramps: One Alpha down.

Dean: Where is it? Want to pay my respects.

Gramps: Already on the pyre.

Gramps is a lying liar who lies!

They get in the car and head back. Dean’s all 20 Questions in the car. How’d it go? Fine. Anything weird? No. Sam is a lying liar who lies, too! Dean pulls over, having had ENOUGH and gets out of the car. Sam steps out, leaning on the door, his face totally blank.

Dean: I saw you walk that Alpha out the door, Sam. Call me crazy, but…that seemed weird.

Sam: Oh.

Me: Oh? OH??!?!

Sam: You weren’t supposed to know about that.

He says Gramps has been taking them and grilling them somewhere. Grilling as in torturing them for info…not as in, like, eating them. *laughs at self*

It was Sam’s idea not to tell Dean because Dean would mess it up.

Sam: You’d shoot first and ask questions later. We needed to ask questions.

Dean: I don’t care if you’ve got soullessness or the mumps. You know better than this. Have you been there? What does he want? Why? Did it ever occur to you that this is really shady??

Sam: It’s our grandfather.

The thing I find interesting about this was that Sam didn’t even know why they needed to ask questions. Just that Gramps said they did, that’s all that mattered. He had an order, he had a mission. He had a job to do that he knew how to do well, and he was ready, willing and able to do it. In that way? In that small way? He reminded me of Season 1 and 2 Dean. The Dean that was “downright scary” when he was hunting. The obedient soldier that followed John’s orders with “blind faith.”

Which is so weird thinking about the Sam that rebelled against everything John stood for—and therefore, by proxy, Dean as well—when he left for school.

But the thing is…there were still so many more layers to that Dean back then than there are here with this Sam. I know Dean told Veritas that Sam was acting like him, but Sam’s only acting like a piece of him—a piece that isn’t really the same anymore. He will eliminate the evil, yes, but he’s not the same hunter anymore.

Dean: He talks a great game. But you can’t assume that family means the same to him as it does to us. He’s not Dad.

For a heartbeat, I hurt for Dean with that sentence. Because I honestly don’t think family means the same thing to anyone else around him as it does to him. We saw that evidence pretty clear in Dark Side Of The Moon. Sam’s definition of ‘family’ differed rather greatly from Dean’s. Yet…at the same time, Sam followed Gramps because he was family. Doesn’t really seem to be any other reason he chose to go there to find a unit when he came back from the cage—he could have gone to Bobby, for example. So…maybe I’m wrong. Maybe Sam has changed his definition of family. I kinda hope so.

Sam listens to Dean’s words, then just looks down. Blank.

Dean: Wow. You don’t see it, do you? You’ve got no instinct.

Sam’s silent, looks away.

D: I mean you are seriously messed up.

S: Thanks.

He almost looked hurt there—which the words were a bit mean…I mean, Sam knows he’s messed up, right? No need to rub it in. But I think it’s just starting to really sink in for Dean, the impact of what it means to not have a soul. How it’s more than just loss of emotions or compassion or remorse. Or sleep.

It’s the loss of his gut. The thing that made Sam the one to play the good cop to Dean’s bad cop. His ability to feel when something was…off. That’s…kinda big.

But the thing is, why would it hurt Sam for Dean to say those words? If he can’t feel those things, as they claimed, was he just being a smart ass? Poking back at his brother?? They made my head tilt a lot in this one, is all.

Dean: I’m not kidding. No one is forcing you to work with me. (His face stayed stoic but his eyes flinched a bit with this.) Okay, but if we do this, I call the shots and you tell me everything whether you think it’s important or not because trust me, you clearly can’t tell the difference. Or…you go with Samuel. See how that goes. Your call.

So…we started out with Dean being the ‘bossy’ big brother, and then after Hell, demon blood addiction, going their separate ways, and finding out they’re to be vessels, we get onto a more even ground with Sam calling the shots equally with Dean. But now…because Dean can’t trust him (understandably so) and Sam’s instinct is on the fritz, we’re back to Dean in charge again. I’m not saying I mind it. I’m not complaining. I’m just observing the pattern we’ve got going on here and wondering where it might lead us…knowing what we know now.

Back at the Campbell compound thingy, Sam walks in on Gramps loading weapons into a bag and says that Dean left—they’re not seeing eye to eye. I actually found myself feeling disappointed. It was interesting. I don’t know how I feel about Sam, really. I’m not sure how invested I am in his fate in and of itself—since the start of this it’s been (for me) more about how his fate is going to affect Dean. But at the thought that he chose to go with Gramps instead of Dean? I was let down. Huh.

Sam tells Gramps he wants in on the Alpha interrogation—that they are his family, and all he’s got left now, and he wants to help. Gramps is all, sorry, kiddo, but no soul means no help. This made me think that Gramps must have been telling the truth—he knew something was hinky about Sam…and perhaps he’d been told that Sam’s fate hung in the balance with his decision to follow orders…but he didn’t know it was Sam’s soul.

So, Sam heads out of the building into the night and I actually felt this pang. Like…did he have no one now? I surprised myself. I didn’t want him to be alone. He sneaks into the van and grabs a cell phone and then…heads over and climbs into the passenger seat of the Impala. Hee!

Dean’s half-grin is relieved and pleasantly surprised and his “Hey” is almost…gentle. And happy. Definitely happy. *grins* His whole being took a breath. *rubs heart* Ya’ll…this guy…..

Sam, giving Dean a side-ways glance: You didn’t think I’d come back.

Dean: I figured…60/40.

*grins again* Okay, I’m better now.

I don’t want Season 1 boys back. I don’t want ANY previous season’s boys back. We’ve already had that. This isn’t then, this is now and too much has happened to replay anything from before. But, that said? I still want them together. And by that, I don’t mean living-in-each-others-pocket-tangled-up-co-dependent-together. I just mean together. Aligned. Whole. Partners. Brothers. They’re not there yet by a long shot, but this is another baby step in the right direction.

Sam says that Gramps didn’t take the bait, so he went to Plan B.

Dean: We had a Plan B?

Hee!

Sam took the GPS from the cell phone and is tracking them to see where the Alpha Torture Place is. Dean’s, like, the old man won’t notice?

Sam: Trust me. He thinks Velcro is big news.

*guffaws*

So, they follow the A-Team van to an abandoned warehouse, wait until Gramps and Christian go inside and then head over to the locked door covered in DMB as “vamp repellent.” They get inside and Sam has a machete and Dean his gun. They sneak down a hall, hear Christian open a sliding door and duck inside a room, hiding. Christian pauses, pokes his head in the room, but leaves without seeing them. Whew.

They head down to the room they saw Christian leave and see that Gramps has Alpha Vamp (who totally reminds me of Andre Braugher, by the way) chained to a chair behind bars and is questioning him. It’s a fruitless exercise. Gramps is all bluster and the Alpha Vamp is totally unimpressed. The charge of electricity Gramps doses the vamp with does absolutely nothing to him, and the DMB he has flowing into his body is just enough to barely control him, but not sedate him or make him sick as we’ve seen it do to others.

Gramps demands to know where “it” is and how can they find “it” – but Alpha Vamp ain’t talking. It frustrates the hell out of Gramps and he ends up leaving in a bit of a huff while the Alpha chuckles.

Then….

Alpha Vamp: Are you two going to hide all night? C’mon out boys.

Well, duh. He can smell them. C’mon, Dean. You should’ve remembered that. *bops the back of his head*

The cage is in the center of the room ala Hannibal Lector and as the boys approach we see (but they don’t) that the vamp has extended one of his fingernails and is calmly cutting through the leather strap tying his right wrist down. He keeps his eyes on the boys, though, and they look back at him. He’s very polite, eerily so. Dean’s brash, saying that the DMB leaves him without enough juice to, “fire up your psychic bat signal.”

The Alpha knows Dean’s name—because Dean was once his child for a time. *spooky*

Dean (disturbed by the reminder): I’m asking the questions, Fright Night!

He zaps the Alpha with the electric charge and in a voice that sounds completely powerful and completely evil and kinda gave me a shiver, the Alpha says, “When your kind first huddled around the fire, I was the thing in the dark. You think you can hurt me?!”

Dean shuts down the charge.

AV: I have all night, boys. You? Do not. Anyway, I’m happy to tell you want you want to know because soon I’ll be ankle deep in your blood and sucking the marrow from your bones.

Um…eww? The calm delivery of those words was just…yeah. Evil.

Sam: You’re really it. The first of your kind. But…if you’re the first…who made you?

Oh, good question, Sammy! *is impressed*

AV: We all have our mothers.

Dean accurately guesses that the sudden increase of vamps means they’re going to war. The Alpha Vamp tells Sam that he’s smells cold—he’s realized that Sam has no soul.

AV: Can you feel how empty you are? The thing about souls…if you’ve got one…is if you die you go up or down. Now when my kind dies, where do we go?

Sam (with a sort of awed realization): Purgatory.

Dean: Purgatory’s real?!

AV: Yes. Now. Where is it? That’s the real mystery. And that’s what Gramps wants to know. But he’s only doing what he’s told.

Dean: If the old man’s Kermit…whose hand is up his ass?

*tries to erase disturbing mental picture*

Just then, the sound of a round being chambered rings out and the boys turn to see Gramps, Christian, and some random hunter who should have been wearing a red shirt standing behind them. Gramps takes them out in the hall and they empty their (rather impressive pile of) weapons on the ground. Dean and Gramps go head-to-head with the what the hell are you thinking argument.

Dean says he thinks Gramps has the rest of these “pheebs” convinced he’s John Wayne but whatever he’s hiding is gonna put everyone around him in the ground. Gramps goes to hit Dean, but Dean takes him, disarming him, and Sam backs his play by disarming Christian. Dean—moving lightning quick—goes for his .45 just as another gun being cocked sounds from down the hall and there’s good ol’ Gwenie.

Swell.

Meanwhile, Random Hunter is watching the Alpha. He flips the electricity switch for no good reason, and the Alpha gets free of his leather restraints and is out of his chains and out of the cage before the hunter can say cannon fodder. The Campbells and Winchesters hear the screams and Gramps tells the boys to grab their stuff and they head in to find an empty cage and a whooooole lotta blood.

Dean’s face is all I told you so! While Sam’s expression is more Yeah, what he said!

They only have 2 syringes of DMB left and about an hour until the Alpha is at 100% capacity. Gramps still wants to catch him and cage him and Dean’s like, screw that. We did it your way and now a random hunter is dead. I’m in charge. Only y’know, he didn’t say it exactly like that. He does hand out orders, splitting them up to search the building saying, “We take his head or he kills us all.”

Dean: And if we make it through this, you and me and Sam are having one helluva family meeting.

Hee. I like in-charge-Dean. I know. Shocking.

The hunt is on. Sam, Christian, and Gramps go one way; Dean and Gwen go another. And did anyone else think the music in this section was kinda…weird? Like so purposely spooky it kinda wasn’t? I usually only notice the classic rock and then what I’ve started to call the “Brothers Theme”…but this just caught my attention.

Anyway, Sam’s crew finishes their sweep and end up back in the cage room. Christian says, “Think he ran out?”

And BAM! Alpha is there, snaps Christian’s neck, tosses Gramps hard across the room, knocks Sam’s machete out of his hands, and slams Sam against the wall, a hand against his throat. Whoosh!

I didn’t really even get a chance to think YAY! No more Christian!

Alpha Vamp is in Sam’s face while Sam struggles for breath.

AV: Boy with no soul? I’ve got big plans for you. Amazing how a pesky soul gets in the way.

Huh…so…wait. Vamps do or don’t have souls in this ‘verse? ‘Cause…no one said anything about Dean losing his when he got turned into a vamp. But, while tied up in the cage, the Alpha said that souls go up or down, but ‘his kind’ go to Purgatory when they die. So if that’s true…that means when vamps get turned they lose their soul, so…why would a soul get in the way? Am I over thinking this? I think I’m over thinking this. *go with it Gaelic*

AV: You will be the perfect animal.

AND THEN!

Demon!Christian—complete with black eyes—doses the Alpha with DMB and THEN! A bright light flashes, causing Sam to squint and flinch away and more demons show up and grab the Alpha Vamp and THEN! Another flash and they all—including the Alpha Vamp—disappear just as Dean and Gwen come running in. Whew! The only sound after all of that is clapping. And if clapping could sound mocking? It does.

Crowley.

I’ll admit, I was happy to see the evil little bugger. He amuses me greatly. And I think his involvement adds an interesting level of complexity to this storyline.

Crowley: Well. That was dramatic.

Word.

Gramps: Bring Christian back! Now!

Crowley: Who?

Gramps: My nephew that you just shoved a demon into!

Crowley: I had him possessed ages ago. Samuel, really. Keep an eye on my investments.

Well! That certainly explains a lot! And! It makes me wonder something. I still think Sam told the Campbells about Dean being in Hell—mainly because he didn’t look surprised when Christian started poking Dean about it—but now I wonder if Christian was possessed even then and if he had a level of knowledge about Dean’s experience in Hell that added to the cruelty of his words.

Sam could have said very little about it, in fact, and Christian just pulled the rest from his memory. Not sure we’ll ever know, really, but it does make me wonder. And I’m willing to bet that we’ll see Demon!Christian again. Dangit. But now at least I feel justified for disliking him so vehemently.

Anyway, Dean follows the Crowley-Gramps exchange with a shocked, wait, what? You two know each other??

Crowley: Not in the Biblical sense. More of a business relationship.

HA!

Sam, venom in his eyes, looks at Gramps: You’re Crowley’s bitch.

Crowley’s like, basically, yeah, but is all coy about details until Sam says they know he’s looking for Purgatory. Crowley finally says, yeah, he is because he’s looking to…expand. *frowns* Riiiiight. I’m thinking there’s a bit more to it than that. Crowley says he knew that the boys were so hung up on family loyalty that if Gramps said jump, they’d “get frogging” and Gramps was an encyclopedia of the creepy and crawly, so…win/win as far as he was concerned.

Turns out, Crowley pulled both Sam and Gramps out of their ever-afters. Kudos to anyone out there that called it. I, for one, didn’t see it coming. Dean calls bullsh*t and says that Cas told him only someone with serious mojo could do that and Crowley is just a punk ass crossroads demon.

Crowley: Was a punk-ass crossroads demon. Now the King of Hell.

So, not only did he pull Sam out of the cage, but, “I snap my fingers, Sam gets his soul back, or you can be you and Sam goes back into the hole.”

Dean’s face is set in Pissed Off and he looks, guh, just tough. *bites lip*

Crowley: We clear? Me, Charlie. You, angels.

Ha—how ironic.

Crowley: Bring me creatures. High on the food chain. Everybody wins.

Crowley disappears and Dean looks like he can’t decide if he wants to pummel something or throw up. Gwen’s all, “You’re letting a demon call the shots?!”

Gramps basically tells her to hush and go get the van, that nothing has changed, they’re still hunting. He also says he’ll take care of Crowley. Uh-huh. Sure you will, Gramps.

Sam (to Gramps): You’re not who I thought you were.

Gramps: You don’t know anything about me, Son.

Which is true and exactly what Dean had been trying to point out to Sam all this time. Dean just looks…angry. Not even pissed. Just fed up and angry. Like he was mad that he’d been right not to trust his own grandfather.

Dean: What’s so important that you’re the King of Hell’s cabana boy? What did he promise you? Girls? Money? Hair?

Gramps: I got my reasons.

So, I’m thinking that only part of his reasons is Sam. I think Crowley told Gramps that he brought Sam back and that Sam’s actions and behavior scared Gramps, like he said, and Crowley said that he brought Sam out, he could put him back in or some such thing, and held that over Gramps’ head…but I don’t think Gramps knew about the soul thing. However, there’s obviously something else driving his obedience. I wonder if there’s someone in Purgatory….

Gramps goes to leave and Dean’s like this brick wall of I don’t think so in his way. His face holds that same Not To Be Effed With expression he wore in the motel kitchen when he was a vamp. Unf. Again. My toes just curled thinking about it. There’s something about the power in that expression that just…well, I wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end of it, that’s for sure.

Gramps says he’s not going to do anything to Dean. The boys are his family (there they go, tossing that word around…I’m sorry, but you don’t treat your family like this and then get to slap that label on it as a Band-Aid).

Gramps: You got two choices—put a bullet in your grandfather or step aside.

Sam’s reaction is immediate—he pulls out his gun and cocks the hammer, aiming it directly at Gramps’ head. Dean smoothly, and almost without looking, reaches up and eases the gun down, then looks over his shoulder at Sam. Interesting. Now who is shoot first ask questions later, hmm?

Aside—the “Brother’s Theme” music I was talking about? Was playing during this part.

Sam: He sold us out.

Dean: I know. Let it go.

Sam: Why?

Interesting again. Sam sounded and looked…betrayed. Angry. So, he feels that. He feels wronged. But when he asked ‘why’ it was as if he might truly not understand why it would be a Very Bad Idea to shoot his grandfather in the head. This whole soulless thing is really taking some getting used to. I’m ready for them to deal with Crowley and get it back. I need Dean to have Sam back. They’re gonna have plenty to hash out after that to fill a half a season.

Dean tells Gramps to get out of there, but can’t bring himself to look at him. Gramps leaves and the brothers face each other.

S: What now?

D: We can’t work for Crowley.

It’s not an ultimatum or declaration…it’s more of a how did it come to this? Which I was thinking, too. But…back when they were fighting a destiny as angelic vessels and Crowley was working with them…I had a bad feeling that nothing good could come from trusting a demon…even when there was no other choice. Just seems interesting that Crowley pulled Sam out of the cage almost immediately after he went in. And why Sam? I mean, I get Gramps—what with all his bad guy knowledge.

But why grab Sam, too? Did he just need Sam to get Dean into the mix, knowing Dean wouldn’t fight without his brother? Because apparently he wanted both of them and their “family loyalty” in the fray. And…hmmm…I wonder if he sicced the djinn on Dean because Sam’s year-long avoidance of Dean was putting a crimp in his plans? *ponders more*

Sam: You sure?

Dean: Demons bone you every time.

Sam: Oh, I get it. Believe me. But…doing the math, do we have another choice?

Dean (petulantly): We could stab him in the neck.

Sam: And get my soul back…how? I think we gotta play ball. For the moment.

Dean: I have done some stupid things in my time…but punching a demon’s clock?

Sam: Just until we find another way.

Dean looks at Sam, this expression of…want…in his eyes. Wanting to trust, wanting to believe, wanting to…make it right.

D: And then?

S: We track him down and give him what’s coming to him. You with me Dean?

We close on that question, not getting Dean’s answer, but c’mon. Of course he’s with you, Sam. When has your brother not been there for you, to the ruin of all else, even himself? He doesn’t know how to not be there for you, with you, having your back.

Doesn’t mean he trusts Sam. Doubt will be there despite what Sam says because Sam has lied to his face—about big things—lately. And it’s gotta be hard to believe someone on face-value when you know they don’t feel remorse. But you can love without trusting. And one thing I do believe about family, you pretty much always give them another chance to win back your trust. Even if you’re sure it’s gonna get you hurt, you let them back in. Over and over.

Hmmm…okay, so Civil War in Heaven. Baddies on Earth increasing in number because they’re going to war. The King of Hell looking to expand to something ‘Hell adjacent’—Purgatory. I’m pretty sure this is all going to clash in some big mess and our boys? Are going to once again be right there in the middle of it.

I didn’t watch the previews. I didn’t want to make the same mistake. LOL!

Thanks for hanging with me. I look forward to your thoughts!

Slainte!


Comments

( 129 Tall Tales — Tell Me A Story )
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(Anonymous)
Nov. 6th, 2010 07:43 am (UTC)
Does this mean I'm first? I have nothing to add, because I haven't watched yet, but I couldn't resist being first. But I did read your entire review. Yeah, I used to find hidden Christmas presents when I was a kid too. I'd unwrap them and then wrap them again. But I have stopped reading the last page of a book. I'm getting better.

Thanks for a great read. I'll say more when I've watched.

E.
(Anonymous)
Nov. 6th, 2010 07:45 am (UTC)
I meant I've stopped reading the last page of a book before reading the book. I think I need to go to sleep. :-)
(no subject) - gaelicspirit - Nov. 8th, 2010 06:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
txgirl0302
Nov. 6th, 2010 07:50 am (UTC)
I really enjoyed this episode. I watch with one of my younger brothers and we exchanged so many "WTH" glances my head hurts now.

I'm so confused with Sam's soul and monster souls and Lego Land. I'm just going with it.

I don’t want Season 1 boys back. I don’t want ANY previous season’s boys back. We’ve already had that. This isn’t then, this is now and too much has happened to replay anything from before. But, that said? I still want them together. And by that, I don’t mean living-in-each-others-pocket-tangled-up-co-dependent-together. I just mean together. Aligned. Whole. Partners. Brothers. They’re not there yet by a long shot, but this is another baby step in the right direction.

I keep saying this myself. After everything the boys have been through, I don't think they will ever be S1 brothers. They've grown into different people since then and I want to see something new from them. I'm willing to see things through.

As far as Christian goes I didn't like him from day one. Much like many fans, but now that we see that he was a demon all along something is bugging me. Was he acting like a royal douche-bag because he was a demon or is the real Christian a good guy? Who knows right? Yet, I still wonder lol.

Can I just say that I really like that Alpha Vamp? Because he was great. I wonder what his name is. I hope tonight's not the last that we see of him.

Samuel...I just...blech. In the beginning I was so excited about The Campbells. I wanted to know everything about Mary's side of the family. I thought this was going to be a good thing and now Samuel is a shady mofo that can't be trusted. I'm still very curious to what his reasons are for working with Crowley. I'm thinking it's more than Sam or Dean. I might be over thinking it. *Shrugs*

Crowley was a very nice surprise. He entertains the hell out of me and now that he's Big Bad now I can only imagine how good this is all going to get.

I *think* the "brother-theme" music is called "Americana" off of the Supernatural soundtrack. I could be very wrong, but I'm pretty sure it is.

Oh, and I like in-charge-Dean too ;). The amount of gushing I do over that character has my brother rolling his eyes every five minutes lol.

gaelicspirit
Nov. 8th, 2010 07:01 pm (UTC)
Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you. I think I should just give in and realize that I'm not going to be able to really reply to comments until Monday with the show being on Friday! :) Thanks for being patient!

They've grown into different people since then and I want to see something new from them. I'm willing to see things through.

Exactly -- and me too!!

Was he acting like a royal douche-bag because he was a demon or is the real Christian a good guy?

Yeah...that troubles me, too. I dislike him so much that I want the real Christian to be a douche as well...because if he's a good guy and that was just the demon's personality, well...that would mean I'd have to feel pity for him. And I don't right now. :)

I'm still very curious to what his reasons are for working with Crowley. I'm thinking it's more than Sam or Dean. I might be over thinking it.

Well, if you're overthinking it, then so am I because I want to know MORE! LOL!

I *think* the "brother-theme" music is called "Americana" off of the Supernatural soundtrack.

I don't have the soundtrack yet -- I've asked Santa for it, though. ;) I really like that theme. I hope I can afford the soundtrack soon because I think it would be great writing music.

Thank you so much for reading and sharing your comments. Always a pleasure to read.

msninacat
Nov. 6th, 2010 08:09 am (UTC)
So, if our brains, as some have said, define who we are, then I don’t get why he’s suddenly acting so empty, remorseless, uncaring (as if his essences is gon). If our souls define who we are, then I don’t get why he behaves as if Dean matters to him and that Gramps betrayed them later on in the episode (as if he feels something for them). Maybe it’s a combination of both—logic (the head) and heart (the soul) connecting to make the whole person. With only one or the other, you’re only a shadow of yourself.

Someone said it earlier in some comments and I sorta liked it. Sam is kinda working with muscle memory here. Sometimes he reacts because that's just how he's always reacted and then other times he just forgets how he supposed to act. I couple that with maybe he's trying a little harder to act "normal" so he doesn't freak Dean out so much. IDK It's a lot for one show with 22 eps to explore so I think they're gonna make us deal with most of the semantic stuff ourselves on this one.

I don’t think he realizes he’s not being respectful, though. And I don’t say that in the “show him deference because he’s a Heavenly creature and very powerful” type of respect. I say it in the way I show all my friends respect: that I’m not more important than they are, and that what they say, feel, and do matters to me.

Someone earlier said that they were mad at Dean for being so cold to Cas but you kinda said it earlier. Dean has down shifted back into hunter mode and he's also in "deal with all this crazy without going nuts" mode. I think if you look back through the seasons, anytime Dean is in true crisis mode, nobody gets much respect including Sam. So I don't see it as a personal attack to the character it's focused as so much as a character trait of Dean's. He becomes so singularly focused on the issue that everything else goes out the window.

And I pretty much agree with you as usual. I've been excitedly gloating most of the night because at the beginning of the season before Crowley even came back I said he was up to more than we thought and everyone thought I was crazy. After last episode, I said Crowley's got Sam's soul and got more crazy looks, so yeah......gloating a bit. Cause I pontificate on show all the time but am rarely this dead on. XD

I'm interested to see how Purgatory will become important because I'm wondering if they will go the route that whoever can clear out Purgatory wins or what.

Also, how and why do you make a deal with a demon when you're already in heaven. I don't think people are taking that particular one into focus nearly as much as they should be. Because it opens up a whole new floodgate in my opinion. I'm totally on board and I'm glad I didn't waiver because my faith in the show is totally paying off.

Again, I am sorry about my contribution to the spoilery coming soon ads. I don't think this week's was as forthcoming as last week's and I totally blame show. If they want us to be shocked they should keep the previews just as vague as they usually are. ;D
gaelicspirit
Nov. 8th, 2010 07:05 pm (UTC)
Sam is kinda working with muscle memory here. Sometimes he reacts because that's just how he's always reacted and then other times he just forgets how he supposed to act.

Okay, I can buy this. It would help me not sprain my neck from tilting my head so much in reaction to Sam's...reactions. I mean, before, when we didn't know what was going on with him, I was just WTH, Sam?? But now that we know he's got soullessness (*grins*) I'm not sure how to react when he actually has reactions. Not like we have a lot of soul-free good guys examples to compare it to, right?

Thus far in my TV watching, soul-free has equaled dead or evil, of which Sam is neither, so...I'm trying to roll with it and keep up with them.

After last episode, I said Crowley's got Sam's soul and got more crazy looks, so yeah......gloating a bit.

Gloat away!! You deserve it. :) I didn't see it coming -- not entirely. So I applaud you. ;)

Also, how and why do you make a deal with a demon when you're already in heaven. I don't think people are taking that particular one into focus nearly as much as they should be. Because it opens up a whole new floodgate in my opinion.

Very true. It's gotten me wondering if Gramps was really truly in Heaven. I mean...what do we have besides his word that says so? *ponders*

And don't worry about the spoilery stuff -- lesson learned on all sides and we're all good. :)

See you next week!!
impala1967
Nov. 6th, 2010 08:29 am (UTC)
hehehe I was right with my theory about Sam and Crowley. I obviously think about this far too much :)
gaelicspirit
Nov. 8th, 2010 07:06 pm (UTC)
Yay you!!!

And I think we're all a tiny bit guilty of thinking about these boys and this show too much. At least your thoughts are getting you somewhere!! :)

See you later.
(no subject) - impala1967 - Nov. 8th, 2010 09:51 pm (UTC) - Expand
koontah
Nov. 6th, 2010 09:14 am (UTC)
I've always enjoyed your assessments and comments in these episodes-I just don't always get a chance to read them and then answer. Anyway, I totally agree with your confusion regarding Sam; how there's shadows or hints of his old self that seeps through the lack of expression or empathy. It's automatically obvious that Sam cannot tell the difference between right and wrong. I like how Dean coins him as 'Robosam'; the way the alpha vamp called him the 'perfect animal'. Sam is a Labrador, willing to please anyone who wants to feed and pet him (pardon the expression). I think, too, that Sam often acts on MEMORY, not so much on reaction/response. Hunting is methodical and he understands the method of hunting, but like Dean said, Sam has no instincts. He goes by what he's told.

in Dark Side Of The Moon. Sam’s definition of ‘family’ differed rather greatly from Dean’s. Yet…

I think that whole thing was rigged. I really do. Sam had no more control over what they encountered than Dean did and I think it was rigged with the intention of driving a stake between the brothers. It was, after all, in Zachariah's back yard. If you recall, Pamela has always been attracted to Sam, not to Dean. And Ash led them right to where Zach wanted them. Still, I think you're right. Sam's definition would be different. he grew up motherless, with something of a madman for a father.

"Dean: If the old man’s Kermit…whose hand is up his ass?"
-One of my fave lines in this ep.

"And did anyone else think the music in this section was kinda…weird? Like so purposely spooky it kinda wasn’t? I usually only notice the classic rock and then what I’ve started to call the “Brothers Theme”…but this just caught my attention."
--Yeah, I took notice of that, too. It felt a little off, for some reason.

Sam could have said very little about it, in fact, and Christian just pulled the rest from his memory. Not sure we’ll ever know, really, but it does make me wonder. And I’m willing to bet that we’ll see Demon!Christian again. Dangit. But now at least I feel justified for disliking him so vehemently

I think I'd rather see Demon!Christian again than Meg. :p She's still out there somewhere. But I'm glad they did that because I can't see why Sam would blab about Dean's little misadventure in Hell. Sam might have mentioned that he was in hell, but if Christy was already possessed, as you say, he most likely already knew. HA... which um, leads me to believe the Campbells were lying when they all said they didn't know about Dean and Sam. It just seems inconceivable to me that there are hunters out there who haven't at least heard tales-most everyone knew John Winchester.

I'm dying to know WHY Crowly took Sam's soul but not Gramps'. and how the hell (again, pardon me) was he able to pull Samuel down from Heaven?? I can see how an angel can get into hell, but a demon in heaven? eh? I'm also worried that Crowly might have already sold Sam's soul to someone else. Crowly is slick, can't be trusted. I mean, he already planned to screw Bobby.
Another niggle bothering the back of my skull is Sam's lying. Was he lying because he knew that's what Grandpa would want? It seemed that's all he's done was lie through the skin of his teeth. I'm hoping that he'll stay adjusted under Dean's control rather than Samuel's. Dean won't use him like Samuel has. >.< Hinky.
gaelicspirit
Nov. 8th, 2010 07:14 pm (UTC)
I think, too, that Sam often acts on MEMORY, not so much on reaction/response. Hunting is methodical and he understands the method of hunting, but like Dean said, Sam has no instincts. He goes by what he's told.

Yeah, I can go with this. Muscle memory. That makes sense to me. I said this above: Before, when we didn't know what was going on with him, I was just WTH, Sam?? But now that we know he's got soullessness (*grins*) I'm not sure how to react when he actually has reactions. Not like we have a lot of soul-free good guys examples to compare it to, right?

Thus far in my TV watching, soul-free has equaled dead or evil, of which Sam is neither, so...I'm trying to roll with it and keep up with them.

Sam had no more control over what they encountered than Dean did and I think it was rigged with the intention of driving a stake between the brothers. It was, after all, in Zachariah's back yard.

You might be right. I guess the way I looked at it was that Zach took real memories and placed them in strategic places. Because all of the memories were real -- they never said "hey, wait, this never happened." It was just how the memories played out to each other that caused the hurt. So, yeah, rigged, manipulated...I can get on board with that. But, I still think that they define 'family' differently, though, mainly because those memories were so different.

But however they defined it then, they have to redefine it now. :)

But I'm glad they did that because I can't see why Sam would blab about Dean's little misadventure in Hell. Sam might have mentioned that he was in hell, but if Christy was already possessed, as you say, he most likely already knew.

Yeah, exactly. Because it certainly seemed like Sam knew they knew about Dean being in hell and all, but I just didn't want to think that Sam had gone on and on about it to them the way that Christian made it seem, y'know?

The lying that Sam has so smoothly done all season has me anxious. I don't trust him and that makes me anxious for Dean because I don't want him to not be able to trust his brother but at the same time I'm afraid he will trust him BECAUSE he's his brother and end up getting smacked down for it (figuratively...or literally).

And the more I think about it...the more I wonder if Gramps really was in Heaven. *ponders*

Thank you for sharing your thoughts! Always a pleasure.
primrose_1
Nov. 6th, 2010 10:38 am (UTC)
I enjoyed this episode very much- mostly because they GAVE US ANSWERS!!! No, we don't have ALL the answers, but we have a lot. I am so grateful that they didn't keep us dangling forever- not like some other shows I could mention. This is good.

I think Jared's doing a fabulous job with soulless Sam. He's like an echo of what Sam used to be- reacting because he feels it's appropriate, but no real feeling behind it. It's interesting being bi-bro here, because I'm as much a Sam girl as I am a Dean girl, and this really hurts. I can feel for Dean in the predicament, but it's not the same without Sam. I don't know what to feel about Sam, so it's all confusing. Does this make sense? I don't think I can type this at 4 in the morning and expect to make sense :)

Christian was fun- If they completely followed formula, he was the next one to die, but they'd have some sympathetic moment to show that all of his antagonism had a reason behind it that could soften Dean a little bit, then they'd kill him off so we could feel bad about his death. THAT didn't happen! Yes, he died second, but certainly not the way I thought! That's why I love this show!
gaelicspirit
Nov. 8th, 2010 07:18 pm (UTC)
He's like an echo of what Sam used to be- reacting because he feels it's appropriate, but no real feeling behind it.

I agree -- but at the same time, it's challenging to watch. Not that being challenged is bad. It's just that before I was okay with being confused about what he was up do. Now, though, I know there's a "reason" behind it, but (for me) the "reason" doesn't "excuse" some of his choices. Plus...I'm accustomed to how OldSam behaves and when I see a glimmer of OldSam in this RoboSam version...I think, wait that shouldn't be that way.... Only with the theory of 'muscle memory' it totally makes sense.

Bottom line? They always keep me watching. :)

I fully expect to see demon!Christian (those two words look totally wrong together) again -- and see him face off with Dean. That could...actually be kinda cool. :)

PS
Why are you up at 4am???
(no subject) - primrose_1 - Nov. 8th, 2010 07:58 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - gaelicspirit - Nov. 8th, 2010 08:02 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - primrose_1 - Nov. 8th, 2010 10:42 pm (UTC) - Expand
jra1978
Nov. 6th, 2010 11:00 am (UTC)
Thank you as always for your insightful review.

While pondering the issue of Sam's lack of soul I do have to admit to feeling a little bit peeved on Dean's behalf - I hope (perhaps a bit selfishly because I am a die hard Deangirl through and through) that the Show doesn’t take away or dismiss Dean’s time in hell by making Sam’s spell there seem so much worse. That was Dean’s storyline and even then it wasn’t explored with the depth I feel it could have been. I do care about Sam but I am not looking forward to having Dean’s suffering pushed under the mat because Sam endured so much more. *sigh* steps down from my little soapbox.

Switching topics and wading in the shallow end – Jensen Ackles continues to be the most beautiful man on this planet!
gaelicspirit
Nov. 8th, 2010 07:27 pm (UTC)
I hope (perhaps a bit selfishly because I am a die hard Deangirl through and through) that the Show doesn’t take away or dismiss Dean’s time in hell by making Sam’s spell there seem so much worse.

I agree with you very much here. I also agree that they could have mined that well of reaction a bit deeper when Dean returned from Hell and his confession of what happened to him there. I wanted more 'show' than 'tell' with how it hit him on the inside.

But...that was then and this is now.

Now...I'm with you in where I hope they don't go. Pain is pain. Hell is hell. I can't remember where I wrote it -- in a ramble someplace, but I said before that you could not take a WWII solider who fought in France and a WWII soldier who fought at Guadalcanal and say one's experience with the war was worse than the other's.

It's different. Different is not worse. It's just different.

I had someone react...negatively...to my pondering that perhaps The Cage wasn't in Hell. By saying that I wasn't insinuating that Sam had been sipping Mai Tai's somewhere while Dean was suffering endless torment.

Wherever The Cage is, it's bad. It's enough to keep the Devil in check. And he's not enjoying it, or why would he want to leave, right? It's punishment.

But so was being tortured on the rack for 30 years, taken apart and put back together again, taunted, pushed, torn up, broken.

And neither of them deserved it and both of them survived it. The only place I want the Show to go when talking about Hell-Time is to give the brothers the comraderie of veterans who have both been through it and lived to tell the tale. A commonality to bond them, not a vice to pit them against each other.

And yes. Perfection has a face. And it is Jensen. ;)
serendip50
Nov. 6th, 2010 11:24 am (UTC)
I haven't watched the episode yet. But your reactions are always so insightful.

Could Mary be in Purgatory? Or for that matter John!!?

And on Sam trying to act like Dean:
Don't they say imitation, such as it is, is the highest form or flattery....lol.

Regarding Souls
I don't think a 'soul less being' works...you can't be 'alive' without a soul, it's your essense. And Sam's sometimes emotive behaviour is confusing, as you so rightly point out. Again, it is difficult to be someone plausible if you don't have any feelings or emotions at all. I don't think there is any brain without the entireity of the soul, either..I think ppl are grasping at straws as is Sera. Another thing...When someone dies their soul is gone, there would be no need for Crowley to take Sam's soul?! Right? Maybe that's also in Purgatory!?...lol.

And why is Dean needed at all...If Crowley had any sense he wouldn't involve such a die-hard brother as Dean? Dean only make things more difficult, puts a spanner in the works, as it were....SO, why is Dean involved (apart from trying to get Sam's soul back)...I don't buy it, there's gotta be something more to it. I certainly hope so.

I know Sera is a professed Sam!girl but this is downright favouritism...and I hate that in ppl with power, especially when it is SO OBVIOUS. xx
gaelicspirit
Nov. 8th, 2010 07:31 pm (UTC)
Could Mary be in Purgatory? Or for that matter John!!?

I wondered the same thing. I mean...didn't Ash say something about not being able to find them in Heaven? And Zack used Mary in his twisted Heaven to poke at Dean.... Just makes me wonder.

I don't think a 'soul less being' works...you can't be 'alive' without a soul, it's your essense. And Sam's sometimes emotive behaviour is confusing, as you so rightly point out. Again, it is difficult to be someone plausible if you don't have any feelings or emotions at all.

It's definitely confusing to me. It works as an easy explanation to others, though. But...for me? I said this above: Before, when we didn't know what was going on with him, I was just WTH, Sam?? But now that we know he's got soullessness (*grins*) I'm not sure how to react when he actually has reactions. Not like we have a lot of soul-free good guys examples to compare it to, right?

Thus far in my TV watching, soul-free has equaled dead or evil, of which Sam is neither, so...I'm trying to roll with it and keep up with them.

And as far as favoritism...as long as we keep seeing things through Dean's eyes, I'm okay with her making the show about Sam. I really am. To fall back on Kripke's comparison from long ago, Star Wars was always about Luke and the Skywalker's, but Han Solo was my favorite character and he made the story worthwhile. :)

Plus...it's not like we can do much about it, right? :)

Thank you for reading! See you next week?
simplycolourful
Nov. 6th, 2010 02:27 pm (UTC)
I liked this episode, and Sam without a soul is scary and kinda interesting.

I agree that I don’t want the season 1 boys back, because they have developed and changed a lot since then, and it wouldn’t be right. I also don’t believe that they can ever go back to having that kinda relationship again, but maybe they can find something better.

I’m also wondering about Gramps, what is Crowley’s hold over him, and what does he want out of the deal?

I was completely surprised when Crowley showed up, but I think it was a nice twist. Also I keep forgetting that he’s now King of Hell. I hope they will reveal more about that later.
About Crowley, there’s something I’ve been wondering. So we know he’s from the 17 hundred. And Ruby was from “When the plague was big” which in my head is earlier.
So it would stand to reason that he’s a young-ish demon. So why is he King. Woudn’t there be older, more powerful demons around?
Just me wondering…

I’ll see you next week :)
gaelicspirit
Nov. 8th, 2010 07:36 pm (UTC)
I’m also wondering about Gramps, what is Crowley’s hold over him, and what does he want out of the deal?

I know! Details, please! :)

I'm glad I wasn't the only one surprised by Crowley! :)

So why is he King. Woudn’t there be older, more powerful demons around?
Just me wondering…


I wondered about this, too, but here's where I go with it to make it make sense. Lucifer and Crowley and even Azaezal all referred to how scattered demonkind was and how they were only out for themselves, by and large, and had no structure or focus.

We all know that Crowley has a very clear focus -- he's had an agenda since the jump. So maybe it's that focus, that drive to achieve something that gave him the edge over other older, potentially more powerful demons and claim the crown.

Not only that? But he was in the fight with the good guys and knew right when to strike -- right when the other demons might be watching the big fight and munching on popcorn, he was sneaking out the back and grabbing the keys to the kingdom.

As far as power...I'm not sure how it all works, but I think about Balthazar saying that souls were the biggest commodity out there these days and as the King of the CRDs, Crowley would have had plenty of souls to barter....

I can't wait to see where they go with this. :)

Thanks for reading!
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etoile444
Nov. 6th, 2010 03:26 pm (UTC)
Huh…so…wait. Vamps do or don’t have souls in this ‘verse? ‘Cause…no one said anything about Dean losing his when he got turned into a vamp. But, while tied up in the cage, the Alpha said that souls go up or down, but ‘his kind’ go to Purgatory when they die. So if that’s true…that means when vamps get turned they lose their soul, so…why would a soul get in the way? Am I over thinking this? I think I’m over thinking this. *go with it Gaelic*

I think they do have souls in Supernatural. I think when you chop off their heads, then their souls go to purgatory. Well, this is my theory.

When they were talking to Gramps at the end and the "Brothers' Theme palyed, I thought I heard one dissonant note in the mix. I'd have to listen again to find out for sure.

I am mighty suspicious of Crowley. Who's he working for?

gaelicspirit
Nov. 8th, 2010 07:38 pm (UTC)
I think when you chop off their heads, then their souls go to purgatory. Well, this is my theory.

Okay, that theory works for me. And makes sense with what the AV said about where 'his kind' go. Just...I was confused for a bit there. *laugh*

I am mighty suspicious of Crowley. Who's he working for?

Good question! I'm ready to find out more!

Thanks for reading and taking time to comment! :)
qultng1
Nov. 6th, 2010 04:39 pm (UTC)
You know I would happily watch Jensen sit on a rock, but he's really bringing out the big guns this season! I just stare at the tv, not willing to miss a second! Whew!

It does seem to me that Sam feels. Some of his expressions seemed genuine. If he didn't feel, there would be no need for genuine. Thought the ready to shoot gramps in the head thing was a shocker, too. wow It makes my head hurt to think about all the ramifications of the soul thing, so I'm going to wait and see. Sam does want it back, tho. It's a surprise, but it seems important to him and that makes me feel better.

His going into Samuel's office and telling him that Dean had gone and they were all he had left now, kind of upset me. Not sure if I felt bad for Sam or for Dean's loss of Sam. Hmmmm Dean's expression when Sam got back into the car, tho, was priceless. He was surprised and delighted! He can really pull it off. :)

I was actually disappointed when Christian was 'killed'. Was really looking forward to a showdown between him and Dean. Guess we might still have a chance at that. :D *smiles in anticipation*

And Crowley's in charge. Huh! How about that. A friend and I were discussing Samuel's need to help Crowley find purgatory and decided he did want to get someone out, but who? Mary? Deanna? Hmmmmmm

Is it Friday yet? lol
gaelicspirit
Nov. 8th, 2010 07:43 pm (UTC)
You know I would happily watch Jensen sit on a rock, but he's really bringing out the big guns this season!

Oh, my, this is so SO true. I try not to overtly gush on this review, but I literally have to hold myself back sometimes. *bites lip* Perfection has a face. And it's Jensen.

It does seem to me that Sam feels. Some of his expressions seemed genuine. If he didn't feel, there would be no need for genuine.

Which is completely confusing to me in how I am trying to keep up with their definition of having no soul. I mean, prior to this, no soul has meant dead or evil (and I'm talking in my TV experience, not in Supernatural), so now that we have a human being walking, talking, breathing, hurting (physically), reacting, thinking, reasoning...only doing so without...feelings...emotions....

It's confusing. Others have said "muscle memory" which might help me roll with it. :)

Dean's expression when Sam got back into the car, tho, was priceless.

I know! I loved that so much!! :)

A friend and I were discussing Samuel's need to help Crowley find purgatory and decided he did want to get someone out, but who?

A very good question. Which...probably won't get answered for awhile. :)

Thank you as always for reading and taking time to comment. You know I love to hear from you. :)
heartlessbytchh
Nov. 6th, 2010 07:13 pm (UTC)
Thank you for your words about Dean hitting Sam.

Sam-lite.
LOL
There's a couple of phrases towards the beginning I didn't quite catch.

And where RoboSam became untied and told Dean nothing would hold him?
WTH?
That's very unsettling to put it mildly. I wanna know why that is.I wonder if that's foreshadowing of some kind. My money sez "Yes".
And I don't think he's capable of remorse right now. And for all he's done to Dean, is "I'm sorry" really enough? Would Hitler saying "I'm sorry" to the world be enough? Would Ted Bundy or Charles Manson saying that be enough?

Ok, explain the "Newman" thing to me. Izzit a Paul Newman reference?
And where or what is Elton Ridge that Kermitthe Gramps referred to? Show is referring to something there but I'm not sure what.Might be Alton Ridge.
Alton,Il is supposed to be one of the most haunted parts of the country.

Hmmm, just had a thought. Alton,Il isn't that far from Aurora,Il.
267 mi. Five hrs drive. Show just threw us a major cluebone.
:D
Show iz SneakyShow.Or so it thinks.
*snark*

amber1960
Nov. 6th, 2010 07:21 pm (UTC)
Apparently the Newman reference (which went totally over my head too) is a Seinfeld reference. Makes you and me like Castiel - Dean and his pesky popular cultural references eh?
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amber1960
Nov. 6th, 2010 07:19 pm (UTC)
Lots and lots in this episode eh? Let's go for a big one first - Purgatory. Crammed full of valuable currency that effectively belongs to nobody, those souls that Balthazar explained were so desirable, stuck in an inbetween place, neither Heaven nor Hell...So I am thinking, that is why Crowley wants Purgatory, it's like a huge bank vault or Fort Knox....

Lucifer's cage - I'd always thought it wasn't in Hell, or at least, wasn't accessible from Hell. After all, if it was part of Hell, how come demons couldn't just walk up to it and talk to Satan - remember the lengths the YED had to go to just to get to chat with his Master, killing all those nuns to get on the Satan-phone.

And I don't buy that Crowley would have enough juice to extract even one human soul out of that prison...even if you think he'd leave Lucifer in there out of self interest, I just think it would be beyond any demon to poke the tiniest hole in that one. Be stealing Sam's soul somehow after something else rescued him, yeah, I'd go with that sort of opportunism.
However, I like your musings about the depth of planning Crowley might have gone to so...jury's still out on that one!

I was interested to see you have labelled that plaintive little theme as the brothers' music - actually I think it is the family theme - if you go back through your DVDs you will find it plays for those moments where the Winchesters have family bonding (or trauma) type moments. You hear it with John and with Mary, and during the visits to the past, so I don't think it is exclusively about Sam and Dean. See what you think if you rewatch... :D

Sam and his feelings - mmm interesting. I am not taking his (very appealing at times) facial expressions as indicative of him actually feeling anything - what I think is happening is that he is using facial movements to accompany words (his and others) where he thinks they are appropriate. It is making him a scary good liar...except where a good lie requires real empathy, and there he fails... I think he is able to do this because he has some kind of sense memory that gives him access to the most appropriate expression for a given occasion.

But of course it does beg the question of why he is sticking with Dean, or why he is motivated to do anything at all without that emotional connection that should be required to drive any of us forward. What is the spark that gives us life and a real purpose, and personality? Is that our soul?

Oh and the Vamp soul thing - I took that to mean that Vamps have souls (which is probably contraversial enough a statement!) but their souls fall in between Heacven and Hell and therefore end up in Purgatory. Which is a very disturbing thought for anyone who actually beleives in these things as a Heavenly Waiting Room full of angry Vampires (and maybe other monster's souls?) would not be a very pleasant place and couldn't be much more attractive a prospect than Hell itself!
Phew. I feel better now. Thanks for your usual thought stirring romp through!
gaelicspirit
Nov. 8th, 2010 08:07 pm (UTC)
So I am thinking, that is why Crowley wants Purgatory, it's like a huge bank vault or Fort Knox

I can totally get on board with that.

I'd always thought it wasn't in Hell, or at least, wasn't accessible from Hell. After all, if it was part of Hell, how come demons couldn't just walk up to it and talk to Satan - remember the lengths the YED had to go to just to get to chat with his Master, killing all those nuns to get on the Satan-phone.

See, I wondered about that, too. I mean, we've just said that Sam went to Hell because we knew that's where Dean went, but Cas is right -- he fell into The Cage and I'm guessing Dante was onto something with this levels of Hell and whatnot. And if Purgatory is "Hell adjacent" why can't The Cage be elsewhere, too?

And just so WE'RE clear, I'm not insinuating anything other than location with that. I got roughed up a bit elsewhere for pondering this locational thing and I had to explain that I wasn't trying to imply that Sam was kickin' back sippin' Mai Tai's while he was in The Cage and Dean had suffered endless torment in Hell.

*deeep breath*

And I don't buy that Crowley would have enough juice to extract even one human soul out of that prison...even if you think he'd leave Lucifer in there out of self interest, I just think it would be beyond any demon to poke the tiniest hole in that one.

Yeah, I'm still in a bit of wonder about all of that. I said above: Lucifer and Crowley and even Azaezal all referred to how scattered demonkind was and how they were only out for themselves, by and large, and had no structure or focus.

We all know that Crowley has a very clear focus -- he's had an agenda since the jump. So maybe it's that focus, that drive to achieve something that gave him the edge over other older, potentially more powerful demons and claim the crown.

Not only that? But he was in the fight with the good guys and knew right when to strike -- right when the other demons might be watching the big fight and munching on popcorn, he was sneaking out the back and grabbing the keys to the kingdom.

As far as power...I'm not sure how it all works, but I think about Balthazar saying that souls were the biggest commodity out there these days and as the King of the CRDs, Crowley would have had plenty of souls to barter....

I am not taking his (very appealing at times) facial expressions as indicative of him actually feeling anything - what I think is happening is that he is using facial movements to accompany words (his and others) where he thinks they are appropriate.

Yeah -- others have said 'muscle memory', which makes a bit of sense to me. I just struggle not to tilt my head a bit at his having any reaction at all. I mean, up to now, I was okay being all WTH, Sam? I mean, not OKAY -- I wanted answers -- but at least I was clear on what I was questioning.

Now, though, I'm trying to roll with it and keep up with them. For me, my TV viewing experience has been no soul = dead or evil.

Sam is neither, so it's challenging to watch him react and not try to reason out why he's doing so -- or HOW he's doing so if he can't feel X, Y, or Z, y'know?

I took that to mean that Vamps have souls (which is probably contraversial enough a statement!) but their souls fall in between Heacven and Hell and therefore end up in Purgatory.

Okay, that makes sense. I mean, as far as this 'verse is concerned. :)

Thank you for reading and providing your thoughts!! I look forward to seeing you next week.
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amber1960
Nov. 6th, 2010 07:24 pm (UTC)
Oh and I totally forgot - if Crowley is holding anyone else over Samuel other than Sam, my guess would be Mary - she did after all make a deal with a demon, so a straight ticket to Heaven seems unlikely, doesn't it?
gaelicspirit
Nov. 8th, 2010 08:08 pm (UTC)
I would guess Mary, too. But...I guess we'll just have to wait. :)

*sits on hands*
countess_k
Nov. 6th, 2010 07:25 pm (UTC)
This marks my first time watching the show on an HD channel, one we’ve had since July and I stupidly didn’t know about. It was so awesome watching the show at 6:00 in the afternoon so I didn’t have to miss out on going to my sister’s place afterwards for dinner and drinks and hanging out with friends. Although I have to admit – and I mean this is the most informative way even though you can take it as a compliment – I did ditch them earlier than midnight to come home and catch your rant. Now you are the one affecting my social life. :)

This episode left me a little cold. For the first time I’m seeing what everyone else was bitching about this season (funny because this is just about the point where everyone else has stopped bitching and is feeling satisfied with the season according to message boards and Supernatural’s Facebook page.) There are a lot of dynamics that are lost and replaced with ones that I’m not enjoying that much. I’m trying to enjoy them but I can’t.

I know Dean still cares for Sam. I can see it, and yet…it’s somehow not the same. Maybe it’s because Sam’s not caring for Dean, or because Sam’s not the same person we knew for so many seasons and I don’t care if Dean cares about this new guy or not. Either way there’s something that clicked in me in this episode that made me miss the last season, or more accurately the way it was used to be last season. The show is very suspenseful and grown up and X-filish now and that’s excellent but I kind of miss the laid back goofiness of the booys, the misfortunes of Team Free Will, and all the metaphorical modernized biblical characters that bumped into them on their way. Alpha vamps and shape shifters are cool but they are in no way a match for Zachariah and Gabriel and Cupid and reapers and mega gods and prophets and the four horsemen of the Apocalypse.

The other part that I don’t like - and I’m glad you finally mentioned - is how the boys (Dean in particular) treat Castiel. I said last week that I think they are being rude to him and that they need to show him more respect. I’m glad this episode Castiel finally acted slightly fed up and told Dean – albeit mildly – how selfish it was for him to think he and Sam’s problems mattered more. He used sarcasm too ♥, looks like my boy's social skills are improving. But that’s not what I found myself thinking about after the episode sank in. It was the sad feeling of having lost yet another dynamic this season, one that to me, was slighly more important than the Dean/Sam one (I know *gasp*.) I think I already told you I’m a Dean/Castiel girl. I loved their interactions, their painful sympathetic looks at each other, even their casual funny moments together. Season five was chockfull of good Dean/Castiel moments. Now in season six Castiel is reduced to a tool. The boys use him to get information and the creators use him to keep the legions of Cas and Misha fans interested. Even though he was declared a regular he appears less this season and plays a less important role in the main storyline than he did last season. That – along with Dean’s cold, almost hostile way of treating him – makes me kind of sad.

And then there’s Crowley. I love his character, a lot, and I’m not sure how I would feel about him being the main big bad this season. I need to see how Mark Sheppard pulls it off. He seems like a versatile enough actor who would be able to make us believe the shady, witty crossroads demon from season 5 could be transformed to the guy in charge of the boy’s troubles this season. I hope they handle this well though and I hope we get to see some Dean angst and moral dilemma in the process. I watched the preview for the next episode and it looked promising. I won’t spoil it for you though.

cntd.

gaelicspirit
Nov. 8th, 2010 08:28 pm (UTC)
Although I have to admit – and I mean this is the most informative way even though you can take it as a compliment – I did ditch them earlier than midnight to come home and catch your rant. Now you are the one affecting my social life.

*laughs with delight!*

I know Dean still cares for Sam. I can see it, and yet…it’s somehow not the same.

I hear what you're saying -- and it's not that I don't see it. But I think I simply ignore it and replace the observation with 'hope'. Mainly hope that this story will be different from real life. And I don't say that to be funny -- though this story is as far from real life as anything could be.

I'm not thinking about the mythology of the story and what they deal with when I say that -- I'm thinking about the relationship of these two brothers. The only way I think I can explain why I have hope for them and am rolling with this painful separation is to tell you a real story about me. I'll make it short.

In my family, I held Dean's role. I am the oldest and shouldered a lot of responsibility and obligation of my siblings (four of them -- 3 sisters and 1 brother) as I grew up. Two of them were practically "mine" in everything but the legal/birthright sense.

One of my sisters -- closest in age to me -- grew to be one of my best friends. She was always rather violitile. Highly emotional. And had trouble seeing the value in getting involved in or caring about a situation that didn't directly impact her or, later, her family.

Recently, we had a very painful falling out. It's not the first time it happened, though. The first time ( about 15 years ago now) hurt a lot worse because I didn't have anyone around me -- like my husband -- to hold me up when she knocked me down. It took us a year to get back to acknowledging each other and even more time to get back to being friends, but eventually we grew close again to the point of best friends and I almost forgot about that betrayal.

Almost. It still lingered because it pretty big and essentially changed the course of my life. Had she not done what she did, I would not be where I am today. I can say that with conviction. So, partly it could be seen as a silver lining, I guess.

Anwyay, this recent falling out is still in the painful, not-speaking phase. I have hope that we can come back together and acknowledge each other once more and perhaps with enough time we can once again be friends.

But even if that does happen, I won't forget this just like I didn't really forget the other. And I know it could all happen again because that's how she is and I know I'll get hurt again, but...she's my sister.

So...with the guys...I see Sam as wrapped up in his own issues (like he has been in the past) and wanting to find a way to connect with his brother, but unable really to bring himself to care. This time we can attribute that to soullessness, but in times before it was a variety of reasons -- some of them selfish from my point of view.

And I see Dean wanting to find that connection but knowing he's probably going to get hurt yet again and doing it anyway because...well, it's his brother. Simple as that.

So, all of that convoluted mess was to say that while it feels ugly now, it has to so that they can work their way back up to being friends again and have it actually be genuine and not forced.

Not fun to watch. Or live through. *laugh*

As for Crowley...I think there's more there than meets the eye. I said above: We all know that Crowley has a very clear focus -- he's had an agenda since the jump. So maybe it's that focus, that drive to achieve something that gave him the edge over other older, potentially more powerful demons and claim the crown.

Not only that? But he was in the fight with the good guys and knew right when to strike -- right when the other demons might be watching the big fight and munching on popcorn, he was sneaking out the back and grabbing the keys to the kingdom.

As far as power...I'm not sure how it all works, but I think about Balthazar saying that souls were the biggest commodity out there these days and as the King of the CRDs, Crowley would have had plenty of souls to barter....

Moving to next post...
countess_k
Nov. 6th, 2010 07:28 pm (UTC)
I must say you made a very keen observation about Sam. I knew he was supposed to appear indifferent because of him missing his soul, but as you pointed out he’s not really THAT indifferent and without emotions. He still feels pride, and he still acts annoyed when his brother pesters him. He looked positively hurt by the way Cas and Dean were treating him at the beginning of this episode and I don’t blame him. Dean’s words made me wince too and I had to remind myself that Dean doesn’t know whether he’s dealing with Sam or some other creature wearing his brother’s body. Still, the puppy dog look was back for a second on Sam’s face and it made me wonder if that was Jared slipping into familiar patterns or it was meant to be part of the nu!Sam personality.

Couple of other points:

Cas: This is a vessel. My true form is the size of your Chrysler Building.
Oh Castiel! ♥ Even when he’s in an episode for only a few minutes he manages to deliver some of the funniest lines. I kept imagining Castiel’s nerdy self as a pillar of light the size of a skyscraper moving across heaven. (Although I’m still wondering how the angels keep their vessels close at hand when they zap in and out of dimensions. If Cas is a giant light in heaven what happens to Jimmy Novaks’ body while he’s in that form?)

I love Dean’s expressions when Cas is around—tells a very clear story of what he’s thinking.
I was really curious about this line in your rant. Are you seeing something I’m not? What do you mean?

I think—and this is just me—that he wouldn’t care if the angels killed each other off in their selfish battle for power and just left the humans alone.
And therein lies my grudge with this new story. I understand Dean may not care about the actual civil war in heaven, but doesn’t he care about what happens to Cas? After all they’ve been through together and all that the pretty boy angel has done for them? *sniff*

But at the thought that he chose to go with Gramps instead of Dean? I was let down. Huh.
I must admit when I watched that scene there was no doubt in my mind that Sam had chosen Dean and this was a test to see if Dean’s claim about grandpa was true. I saw his “Dean left. We don’t see eye to eye,” as a big fat lie to get grandpa to relax and tell him the details of their hunt so he could take it back to Dean. I still think that was the case despite Dean saying he wasn’t sure he would come back.

Again, it saddens me the boys don’t trust each other anymore. I thought about what you said about not trusting your blood relatives. It is a strange notion to me because at this point in my life there are a total of 4 people in whom I trust with all my heart and whom, I believe, trust me the same way. Three of them are my blood family (mom, dad, sister. Her husband is the forth.) I don’t know what my life would have been like if I hadn’t had their unconditional support and love. It seems odd to even think about it.

We did it your way and now a random hunter is dead.
I lol'd hard at this line. Oh, you!

But why grab Sam, too? Did he just need Sam to get Dean into the mix, knowing Dean wouldn’t fight without his brother?
I thought that was exactly why Crowley grabbed Sam. I’m hoping there is something about Dean he wants. Something special no one has that would work in his grand scheme, whatever it is he’s planning. This way at least we get Dean involved in a more significant way in the plot, rather than just bumping around going “What?”

I also hope Castiel comes into play more prominently this season. If they’ve decided to keep him around they better stop making him look like someone who hops in and out of another show to guest star in Supernatural. I would’ve watched that show BTW, if it wasn’t only playing on a channel in heaven. :)

Great rant. Love that I can use your rants as an addition to each episode and read your insights and see things from a different angle. Keep up the good work.

gaelicspirit
Nov. 8th, 2010 08:37 pm (UTC)
I knew he was supposed to appear indifferent because of him missing his soul, but as you pointed out he’s not really THAT indifferent and without emotions.

Others have said that perhaps it's simply 'muscle memory'.... *shrugs* All I know is it confuses me at times. I just struggle not to tilt my head a bit at his having any reaction at all. I mean, up to now, I was okay being all WTH, Sam? I mean, not OKAY -- I wanted answers -- but at least I was clear on what I was questioning.

Now, though, I'm trying to roll with it and keep up with them. For me, my TV viewing experience has been no soul = dead or evil.

Sam is neither, so it's challenging to watch him react and not try to reason out why he's doing so -- or HOW he's doing so if he can't feel X, Y, or Z, y'know?

Oh, about Castiel -- I hope that it came across that I wasn't saying (as some have accused me of) that Dean was being a dick to Castiel. I think that he's just taking him for granted and he's scared and frustrated and tired and argh! And Cas is an angel, so he wants him to do angelic things and fix this. Only he's forgetting that Cas' powers are limited (even as an full-blown angel) and I think there could come a time with those limits come back to bite Dean in the ass. I just think as a general rule he needs to treat his friends better is all. Even if he's not used to having friends. Even knowing that if Cas asked for help, Dean would come running. It's the day-to-day stuff that shows how you care, not how you act in a crisis.

Says me.

I must admit when I watched that scene there was no doubt in my mind that Sam had chosen Dean and this was a test to see if Dean’s claim about grandpa was true.

Sharp one, you are. :) I just followed the ruse and was like, aw, he picked Gramps. :( Glad I was wrong!

I thought about what you said about not trusting your blood relatives. It is a strange notion to me because at this point in my life there are a total of 4 people in whom I trust with all my heart and whom, I believe, trust me the same way. Three of them are my blood family (mom, dad, sister. Her husband is the forth.) I don’t know what my life would have been like if I hadn’t had their unconditional support and love. It seems odd to even think about it.

Believe me, I wish I was like you. I do. But there have been too many times that lies have been told and hurtful words have been said and acts have betrayed me and I can't...I can't trust them NOT to hurt me. I love them fiercely, and if I could, I'd do my best to help them no matter what. But I know each encounter with them will leave me a little more bruised.

Which is why I'm so blessed to have the husband I do and the friends that haven't left my side. :)

I also hope Castiel comes into play more prominently this season.

Personally? I'd love to see Cas vs Crowley. Righteous smackdown. :)

We'll see, though, right? :) Thank you for reading and taking time to share your thoughts. Love them!




Edited at 2010-11-08 08:37 pm (UTC)
countess_k
Nov. 6th, 2010 07:39 pm (UTC)
One thing I forgot to mention, I wonder about this whole "Sam's soul is still in the cage," thing. Wouldn't that technically mean that Sam is still in the cage? When Dean died it was only his soul that went to hell, right? His body was rotting somewhere in the ground. Same with their dad; his body was burned. We know that Sam went into the cage body and all so is this Sam a walking zombie and the real Sam (as in the Sam we know) still in the cage? That would mean his soul is not just as an ethereal "thing" there but the real walking, breathing, acting human Sam. Much like Dean when he was in hell torturing other "souls," using his "soul" hands. You get where I'm going with this?

gaelicspirit
Nov. 8th, 2010 08:40 pm (UTC)
Wouldn't that technically mean that Sam is still in the cage? When Dean died it was only his soul that went to hell, right? His body was rotting somewhere in the ground.

Ah, now, there's the rub. And that very philosophical discussion Cas alluded to. Is he SAM w/out his soul??

Maybe yes, maybe no. It's one of the very things that I have trouble wrapping my mind around. Prior to this show, no soul has equalled dead or evil in my TV experience. I think of Angel/Angelus in Buffy. Sans soul, Angel was Angelus -- cruel, wicked, cold. And then when he got his soul back, he was Angel once again with no memory of what Angelus had done.

However...same show? Spike gets his soul and he's still Spike, same memories, same everything, only now he feels things and he's a "good" vampire.

So...yeah, who knows. I can go with it as long as Sam's reactions don't completely throw me off course. :)
borgmama1of5
Nov. 6th, 2010 07:46 pm (UTC)
"Even if you’re sure it’s gonna get you hurt, you let them back in. Over and over."

Your review is very thorough and insightful, as usual, but the above line just kicked me, because that is Dean's weakness/strength in a nutshell.



gaelicspirit
Nov. 8th, 2010 08:42 pm (UTC)
*hugs you for seeing that*

I wasn't even thinking about Dean when I wrote that. I was thinking, quite honestly, about a real life situation with my sister and a painful falling out we recently had. Similar to a painful falling out we had awhile back. And, I'm sure, we'll have again.

But when you called this out I saw exactly what you meant about Dean and my heart hurt for him.

Thank you for reading.
jesters_tear82
Nov. 6th, 2010 07:51 pm (UTC)
Hello lady!

- I really like your theory of "who we are" being a combo of the logical & the emotional in us, this is what you call the gut instinct - this inner sense of what's right and wrong and the need to stand for our beliefs. I think Sam is relying on his brain + his memories of feelings to make decisions, that's why hunting is so easy for him, it's the "same old routine", and maybe why he decided to hunt with Gramps AKA family - because he knows his family has never betrayed him. Also why not contact Dean for a year - remembering wanting his brother to have a home and happiness, than needing him back when he saw Dean showing care to people and hoping Dean might wake up those old feelings in him too (he didn't know he was soul-less so maybe he assumed it was the after shock from hell making him so non-chalant).

Christian poking at Dean by saying he’s been doing his job and the only action Dean has seen is between his slut of a girlfriend’s legs. Annnd, that’s enough for Dean. He slams Christian against the wall and his jaw muscle is doing that dance thing that just has me…unf.

- I loved this moment of Dean protecting Lisa's reputation despite them being apart and it made me miss her - them - as a couple.. & Christian - I suspect we'll see & hate him (or rather the demon in him) again :)

Dean’s half-grin is relieved and pleasantly surprised and his “Hey” is almost…gentle. And happy. Definitely happy.

- It was the best part of the episode for me. I too was sad to see Sam choosing Gramps but I didn't really buy it, kept hoping it was a ruse, and it was! :) & I was so happy for Dean to have that at least, when everything else is falling apart around him - Sam chose him. Again, me thinks it's because he remembers Dean being there for him ALWAYS - also brotherhood trumps grandparents blood-wise :)

- Crowley being back? I love the guy, really. Thought it was ironic them finding out 3 episodes too late he has Sam's soul because that could have been resolved when they were in Scotland READY TO BURN HIS BONES!! LOL that would have been too easy. Now I wonder where is he stashing Sam's soul? maybe it's not in the cage anymore, maybe a soul who's body didn't die goes to purgatory? *wonders*

- Why bring back Grandpa with soul and Sam without? Don't know if there's an actual deal there -(see Sam & Dean didn't make a deal with Crowley, I guess find purgatory = Sam's soul is back) but with Gramps maybe promise him to bring back to life his wife & daughter? & if Cas could break into hell I see no reason why the king of demons can't "rescue" a few souls from heaven. So gramps needs his soul to care enough about getting his family back to life and live the life he must think they all deserve together, otherwise he would never help a demon (maybe Crowley even threatened to throw Mary's & Deanna's souls into hell?). Sam however - take his soul then have both brothers working together to save it. Crowley gets his 3 fave. hunters on his team!

Dean looks at Sam, this expression of…want…in his eyes. Wanting to trust, wanting to believe, wanting to…make it right.

D: And then?

S: We track him down and give him what’s coming to him. You with me Dean?


- Yes! I like Dean want to trust Sam and want Sam to - not "feel" but understand - Dean is the only one truly on his side, so they can be on the road to being partners and brothers once more (no more lies!) *cuddles them lovingly*

Sorry for rambling so much, this one really got me thinking :)

Shabbat Shalom! (Hebrew blessing = have a peacefull Sabbath!)
gaelicspirit
Nov. 8th, 2010 08:47 pm (UTC)
Hi there! Thank you for reading and taking time to reply. :)

I think Sam is relying on his brain + his memories of feelings to make decisions, that's why hunting is so easy for him, it's the "same old routine"

Yeah, I can see that. Makes sense. :)

It was the best part of the episode for me. I too was sad to see Sam choosing Gramps but I didn't really buy it, kept hoping it was a ruse, and it was! :) & I was so happy for Dean to have that at least, when everything else is falling apart around him - Sam chose him.

I loved this, too! Loved it. Could watch it again and again.

Why bring back Grandpa with soul and Sam without?

Good question. Maybe it was harder to get both Sam AND his soul or something. I don't know. But I don't take anything for granted when it comes to Crowley. I think there's a lot more to learn there.

Dean is the only one truly on his side, so they can be on the road to being partners and brothers once more (no more lies!)

YES! I'm with you 100%. Especially on the no more lies part. :)

You can ramble as much as you want, sweetie. I always love to hear what you have to say!

See you next time.
marlowe78
Nov. 6th, 2010 08:16 pm (UTC)
Wow. This is gonna be a BIG post. Hope you've got enough space in your account for all my talking...

It tops 4.000 words, so I could've very well written a fic. (ok, including some quotes). Hmmmm....maybe I should just post it on my journal?

Ah... no. Too much fun doing it here (and your journal is way cooler-looking!)

But in case you want me to do that in the future, tell me, ok?

So, on it goes....
***

Oh man... this one gutted me on more levels than the last one. Not sure right now why, but maybe I'll know when I'm through with my ramble-on-Ramble.

First of all, me liked this. A lot! The end was a bit mean, but it's not like we'll be in for a surprise, right? If Dean just says: "Aaaahhh, no. Sorry, I'm done here, go and find your soul alone" it'd be a bit stupid. So I just assume that he has to think about that really hard (until next week ;-)) and then he says "ok,fine. Come on, Sam-bot. Lets find your soul and bend over for a demon. 's nothing we haven't done already anyway"


I just yesterday tried to explain to my Sam-girl (non-rabid) friend why Dean hit Sam, and why I don't see anything wrong with it. I mean, it IS wrong and she is right, it's not Sam's fault that his soul is not there, that he came back wrong. So she's right about the whole losing-control-thing being mean and unnecessary - as well as Sam being a bit the battered wife in their relationship. Dean punches Sam when he's losing control, and if Sam was a girl, or a wife, I'd seriously say "fuck off" to him. So why can Dean hitting Sam be so right? Why do I see the facts and think "yes, it's not Sam's fault" and still think Dean is RIGHT to hit his brother?

Maybe because it's NEVER Sam's fault. He always, always always is either possessed or under the influence or something when he hurts Dean and WHEN he is that, he hits where it hurts most. Sam sober doesn't EVER hit Dean. Why not?

I mean, I GET it. I get Dean's punch-fest 100%. I'd be extremely frustrated too in Dean's situation. You can't always bottle everything up and not expect it to blow up some time, and at least Sam can take a few punches. It's still WRONG on so many levels, but I... i just get it.

On the other hand, Dean punching Sam was at least one sign that he still cared about Sam. If he'd just shut himself off completely, just said: "sorry, that's it. I'm done" he'd have just walked away. Or, as you put it, shot him in the head.


I honestly think it was the only way he could compartmentalize everything that had just happened—between Lisa handing him her truth and Sam handing him his truth, Dean went into survival mode and down shifted into hunter-gear.

Maybe. I'm taking it as that, but it just read wrong. Not only that situation, but everything. I had some problems with Dean this ep, and it might be what JA said he has problems with too. He reads a bit wrong, a bit off. I still could explain his behavior, but why should we have to? For Sam, we get everything explained in bite-size, but Dean we have to analyze? Not fair *pouts*

(I should warn ya. I'm quite emo after this episode, and I might get mean to Sam)

Dean explodes about that and Sam agrees that yes, it was weird, but he just didn’t tell Dean. It’s hard to tell if he means “I didn’t tell you because I didn’t want to worry you,” or “I didn’t tell you because I didn’t want you to freak out on me,” or “I didn’t tell you because…it never occurred to me.
Or because of the same reason he did let Dean get turned: it was convenient and why tell Dean? - he might be against that and be all weird about it maybe even CHANGE it. And it's just awesome that he doesn't need to sleep, right?



marlowe78
Nov. 6th, 2010 08:16 pm (UTC)
Pt 2
I mean, his body and his brain have been cage-free for over a year now. What happens when that is meshed with a (possibly) damaged soul?
Good question. And here I get all emo and mean and possessive, because I'll be P-I-S-S-E-D if we get a huge damage-Sam-showing, a big freak-out and stuff. Because dammit, I don't care if it was 100 years, we still didn't get ANYTHING from Dean's time in hell and what it did to him, and now getting it for Sam would be just.. .I'd be just angry.
Not only because of that, because of my inner person screaming that MY hero got damaged too, and would you PLEASE acknowledge that. But also because what if? What if Sam got really damaged and is now.. dunno, maybe starting to cry on every occasion, or something weird. Which could be fun, actually, now that I think about it.

What I mean, what I fear might come is that Dean has to deal with Sam. He'd either take all his pain on himself again, try to help him or he wouldn't, either let Sam push him away or just plain refuse.
And I can't really like either situation. Dean has enough issues! He should be given time to finally deal with them, and he is NOT the right person, really, to get Sam sane again. But there is no other, so either Dean gets selfish and says: "Sorry. Can't." or he becomes a doormat again.

Both would suck. Which is why I fear the fall-out from hell.
Sammy got it easy. If there was some off-screen Dean-freak-outs (like, maybe nightmares?*sarcasm off*), Sam just plain didn't deal with it. Because - and that's of course NOT Sam's fault (sorry...) - Sam was under the influence.


And dammit, why can't I just stay all detached from this show? why can't I watch and say 'cool' or 'meh' and be done? Why did I get so deeply invested in this?

grrrr.

Sorry.

Maybe it’s a combination of both—logic (the head) and heart (the soul) connecting to make the whole person. With only one or the other, you’re only a shadow of yourself.

I think that nails it pretty good. It's both. I don't know what defines us, what makes us human - which is the question here. But I think that Sam still remembers that he cares about Dean, that he SHOULD not let him get turned into a vampire and that he should care if he sleeps. So he remembers that he used to be different, and his brain (logic) tells him that this or that is wrong - and he doesn't do it. He remembers when to smile, and some things are remembered so well that they come automatically. But he doesn't FEEL them. He's not angry at Dean for punching him (he might not even be if he has is soul back. He used to take most of the punches pretty much without complain). And he is maybe not angry for Samuel betraying them, but... well, that's more than jsut feelings. Logically, it just doesn't make SENSE to him. Because he KNOWS and remembers that family is a good thing, that family cares and that family never betrays you. They might keep things from you, but family is what Sam knows as a trustworthy thing.
Which, I think, is why he hooked up unquestioningly with the Campbells. He KNOWS family, and because he decided that Dean should be out, that Dean deserves some time out(he remembers the promise and he remembers that he deeply cared about that fact -so he left him out of it) but he logically needs someone for his back -and in Sam's world, family matters (ha, that is a BEAUTY, right?! How I tied this together? *dances around proud and beaming*)

So, I can pretty much get behind the sometimes weird actions and reactions, and seemingly 'feelings' he expresses.


Hello, Newman.

BWAH! I couldn’t help it. He caught me off-guard. I burst out laughing and scared my dogs. Hee!


Uhm... please explain? I didn't get the reference...
Also... You have dogs???? Didn't know that. The things you learn about a person...

Dean: Recap it for our wingman.

Ha—wingman!


Heee! Didn't hear it - good thing you did!


Loved the 'bragging'-comment. Loved the bragging as well. Fun - and I think it's a good thing Gramps didn't get to know the other angels, hee.
Re: Pt 2 - gaelicspirit - Nov. 8th, 2010 09:23 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Pt 2 - marlowe78 - Nov. 8th, 2010 09:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
Pt 3 - marlowe78 - Nov. 6th, 2010 08:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Pt 3 - gaelicspirit - Nov. 8th, 2010 09:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
Pt4 - marlowe78 - Nov. 6th, 2010 08:18 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Pt4 - gaelicspirit - Nov. 8th, 2010 09:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
Pt 5 - marlowe78 - Nov. 6th, 2010 08:19 pm (UTC) - Expand
The END - marlowe78 - Nov. 6th, 2010 08:19 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: The END - marlowe78 - Nov. 6th, 2010 09:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: The END - gaelicspirit - Nov. 8th, 2010 09:41 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: The END - gaelicspirit - Nov. 8th, 2010 09:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Pt 5 - jesters_tear82 - Nov. 6th, 2010 09:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Pt 5 - marlowe78 - Nov. 6th, 2010 10:20 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Pt 5 - jesters_tear82 - Nov. 7th, 2010 08:05 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Pt 5 - gaelicspirit - Nov. 8th, 2010 09:37 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Pt 5 - marlowe78 - Nov. 8th, 2010 10:08 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - gaelicspirit - Nov. 8th, 2010 09:13 pm (UTC) - Expand
andromakhe001
Nov. 6th, 2010 10:47 pm (UTC)
[i]Aside—the “Brother’s Theme” music I was talking about? Was playing during this part.[/i]

I think that music is officially titled "Dean's family theme"
gaelicspirit
Nov. 8th, 2010 09:41 pm (UTC)
Oh, that's perfect. Because that's what it is. :) One of these days I have to get the soundtrack. Would be great to write to.

Thanks!
jazzyirish
Nov. 6th, 2010 11:09 pm (UTC)
Another insightful ramble, m'dear. You always get soooo much out of these episodes.

As far as interpreting Sam's actions/expressions with regards to being without a soul, I imagine both the writers and Jared are having difficulty with consistently showing Sam without emotions or with "remembered" emotions or "fake" emotions. That's part of the problem with really selling this "soulless" idea. Sam told Dean he was sorry that he allowed him to be turned into a vampire. "Sorry" is a true emotion; what he should have said is that he thought the end justified the means, but realizes now that Dean was angry about it. And the list could go on and on. I'm just going with the notion that they are all doing the best they can with this difficult set-up, but still find it taking me out of the story.

"Dean (not quite able to wrap his mind around this news): I’m sorry. One more time. Like I’m five." I really laughed at this line which was said numerous times by Denzel Washington's lawyer character in "Philadelphia".

Kudos to TPTB that Mark Sheppard's name was NOT included at the beginning of the show, so Crowley's appearance was truly a surprise to all who know the actor's name. (They should use this tactic more often!)

Now to the episode itself. I thought it moved the storyline forward and we got some crucial information regarding Sam's soul and who's in control of returning it, but the episode itself didn't appeal to me as much as others have this season. I enjoyed the beginning with Dean, Sam and Cas and I enjoyed the end scene with Crowley, but the middle (most) of the episode I thought was blah. Too much with the Campbells whom I dislike and really as Dean would say, don't give a rat's ass about. Even Gramps at this point. Sorry :( I would much rather if the boys teamed up with Bobby, Rufus and Cas to find a solution to Sam's problem.

At any rate, loved all of Dean's scenes and the way in which Jensen shows every nuance of what Dean's feeling. Of course, I mentioned the problem with Sam's emotions earlier and that detracts some of the "reality" for me.

However, I do like that there is a theme - a problem to be solved - that will run through the season and not just be MOTW episodes. I'm just saddened that it is, ONCE AGAIN, centered around Sam. That said, the upside is that since the problem is about Sam, we get great reactions from Dean. ;)

Thanks for sharing your ramble with us. I'll be back next week to see what you have to say then.

Irish.
gaelicspirit
Nov. 8th, 2010 09:48 pm (UTC)
That's part of the problem with really selling this "soulless" idea. Sam told Dean he was sorry that he allowed him to be turned into a vampire. "Sorry" is a true emotion; what he should have said is that he thought the end justified the means, but realizes now that Dean was angry about it.

Hee -- you made me think of what we're working on with Mo Chuisle right now. She'll do something she knows is wrong or that we've told her not to, we put her in time out or take away TV or a toy, and she'll say "I'm sorry!" We tell her thank you for saying 'sorry' but sorry means 'I truly regret what I did and will do my best not to do it again.' It's not a magic word that makes all the bad things go away.

Hard to get a four year old to understand that. Probably just as hard to get someone with soullessness (hee) to get it, too. Even if they do retain their memories and should know better.

I really laughed at this line which was said numerous times by Denzel Washington's lawyer character in "Philadelphia".

Oh, I didn't know that! I love Denzel. He's one of my all-time favorite actors. :)

I would much rather if the boys teamed up with Bobby, Rufus and Cas to find a solution to Sam's problem.

Now wouldn't THAT be fun. :)

I'm just saddened that it is, ONCE AGAIN, centered around Sam. That said, the upside is that since the problem is about Sam, we get great reactions from Dean. ;)

Yeah, but the 2nd half of what you said totally saves it for me. I said above that to harken back to Kripke's fall-back comparison, Star Wars was really about Luke and the Skywalkers, but it was Han Solo that made the story real and became my favorite character. Without him bringing down to "our level"...who would really care about the Jedi?

Same goes for me here. If it weren't for Dean and how all of this affects him? I don't know that I'd care if Sam ever got his soul back. :)

Thank YOU for reading and taking time to comment. Always wonderful to hear from you.
amyblair3
Nov. 7th, 2010 12:40 am (UTC)
Loved your "Gramps is a lying liar who lies!" - ah, classic.

I wonder what happened to Adam. Is he in the cage? Did he escape at all? Do the boys wonder where the hell Adam is? Gramps is back. Their FAMILY. What about Adam? Not that I want Adam to be with them, but I wonder about him...

I wondered if Gramps has some kind of deal that has to do with Mary. A parent would be willing to do anything if it would free their child, whether that would be releasing her from purgatory to go up to Heaven or even bringing her back from the dead. And wouldn't that be interesting. Sam and Dean having to stop Gramps from bringing Mom back from the dead... huh.

I saw that the episode that airs before the Xmas break is being kept under a thick tarp. There are supposedly going to be no real leaks about the episode - currently they're just referring to it as 'the Mystery Episode'. I wonder if we will maybe get Sam's soul then or at least find out where it is or something. Personally, I'd like to see it back sooner than later just because I don't want to go to the final episode before Sam gets his freaking soul back. DeanGirls may be okay with dealing with this Sam but I think SamGirls are a bit tired of it. It is bothersome and still... I'm don't have that excitement in watching the show. I kind of sigh and wonder if I'm going to be frustrated and disappointed. I am loving Dean, truly I am. I'm just despising Sam. And I hate that.

I watched the previews. I was a little "Meh". We'll see. Great review, though.
gaelicspirit
Nov. 8th, 2010 09:58 pm (UTC)
*grins* Glad you liked that. 'Cause, ironically enough, it's true!

I wonder what happened to Adam.

While I didn't mind the idea that Adam existed, and also didn't mind the Greek tragedy-ness of his having been killed before the boys found out he existed, I DID mind his being resurrected from the ashes and stepping in to take Dean's place as Michael's vessel. Not sure how else they might've done it, and I was okay with Dean's (tragic) part in the S5 finale, but I still hated that they de-emphasized Dean's role that way.

But. Since the DID and all. I'll admit to being minorly curious as well. I agree with you -- not that I want Adam with them. But I am curious.

I wondered if Gramps has some kind of deal that has to do with Mary.

I wondered that very same thing. I remember Ash saying that he couldn't find John or Mary in Heaven. Could be that he just couldn't find them...or it could be that when she was part of Zack's twisted Heaven in DSOTM she got...flung or something. *ponders*

I wonder if we will maybe get Sam's soul then or at least find out where it is or something. Personally, I'd like to see it back sooner than later just because I don't want to go to the final episode before Sam gets his freaking soul back.

I'm with you. Deangirl or not, I'm with you. Mainly because...it's distracting as hell trying to wrap my mind around how someone could be soulless and be walking, talking, thinking, reacting, interacting, feeling (physically), and all of that. Up to now, in all other shows, no soul = dead or evil.

Sam is neither, so it's hard for me to figure him out sometimes. For me, no soul may be a reason he's done some of the things he's done, but it certainly isn't an excuse.

And it's killing me to watch Dean try to figure it out and live with it, too.

Thanks for reading the review. :) And for commenting. I always love hearing from you. *hugs you*
pickamix
Nov. 7th, 2010 01:21 am (UTC)
All I can say is that I'm glad I'm not watching. Really Sam should be a freaking robot if he doesn't have a soul since in this universe those exist. I mean really. It would drive me bonkers to watch him be emotional sometimes about somethings and not others and it not being consistent at all. I could barely read this for having the same problem. (It's not you it's the show.)

But I do have to say... I like having Crowley around. He was lot's of fun and if he's sprinkled over this season that can only be a good thing. (Just so long as they don't f*ck it up. I don't have high hopes though.)

You remain wonderful. 'Til next week.
gaelicspirit
Nov. 8th, 2010 10:00 pm (UTC)
Really Sam should be a freaking robot if he doesn't have a soul since in this universe those exist.

I agree. But that's not the direction it's going. And I can understand why on some level they went there, but it's still distracting as hell trying to wrap my mind around how someone could be soulless and be walking, talking, thinking, reacting, interacting, feeling (physically), and all of that. Up to now, in all other shows, no soul = dead or evil.

Sam is neither, so it's hard for me to figure him out sometimes. For me, no soul may be a reason he's done some of the things he's done, but it certainly isn't an excuse.

And it's killing me to watch Dean try to figure it out and live with it, too.

I like having Crowley around.

Me too! He should really keep things interesting! *grins*

Thank you for reading and taking time to comment. Always love to hear from you.
immie_8
Nov. 7th, 2010 01:21 am (UTC)
Hey Gaelic!

Loved your review/meta, and I LOVED this episode.

But I think he needs to check himself a bit as far as Cas is concerned.

I agree that Dean needs to start being more considerate of Cas and what he's going through, but I don't think that he does it because he blames the angels for all the trouble they've caused. Right now, for him, Sam's problem is the most important one, and I think he sees that as an absolute. And he expects those he calls friends to react to Sam's problem with the same urgency as he does.

My sisters and I were talking with my dad about relationships once, and he said something that I think is very true - that when we measure or judge people the standard we normally use are ourselves. As we've seen, Dean's reaction when people who he counts as friends need help is "anything you need, I'm (we're) there". And I think this is what he expects from others. Sure it's a bit narrow-minded and not really considerate of others' circumstances, but I know there've been times when I've felt that my problem was the biggest deal in the whole world, and was rather put-off when people around me didn't think so, and my problem was no where near as dire as Dean's, so while I agree that Dean deserves to be chastised, I don't think he's delibrately being a jerk or treating Cas poorly becuase he thinks he can, he just is a little wrapped up in his own problems right now. And I think that with that last barb, he's starting to realize that even Cas' patience has it's limits.

On a related note, LOVED Dean calling Cas his wingman! AWESOME!

So…we started out with Dean being the ‘bossy’ big brother, and then after Hell, demon blood addiction, going their separate ways, and finding out they’re to be vessels, we get onto a more even ground with Sam calling the shots equally with Dean. But now…because Dean can’t trust him (understandably so) and Sam’s instinct is on the fritz, we’re back to Dean in charge again.

The difference I see between then and now, though, is that Dean's rationale use to be, "Listen to me because I'm the oldest." Now, though, it makes total sense that Dean needs to be in charge, because Sam can't be trusted.

Also, before Dean had a deep-seeded need to be with his family, so despite his "I'm the oldest" attitude at times, he was often willing to put up with things that went against what he thought was right (or what even against what he wanted) just because he didn't want to break with his family. Now, it seems that Dean is fully ready to let go if certain ground rules aren't followed and I like it. Dean's starting to draw lines, outlining what's acceptable behaviour and what's not and that's a good thing. I said in your last meta that his old relationship with Sam left no room for him and what he wanted, but if Dean keeps this up, I see things changing and for the better. It might be a necessity now, but I hope that it just becomes something that comes naturally to Dean - for him to put his foot down and just say, "No. I don't approve of behaviour like that and if you want to behave that way fine but don't expect me to stick around and put up with it."

As for the rest of it, I call BS on him being able to pull Sam out of Hell all by his onesie. King of Hell or not, demons have always had to make deals in order to bring people back. Angels, OTOH, seem to have much more free reign in that sphere. I wonder if Baltazar is the one at the top and it's him who's looking to take over Purgatory. I mean, Lucifer had Hell, God reigns over earth, maybe he wants a kingdom of his own. And I can see him offering Crowley support and "heavenly" backing if Crowley helps him find Purgatory.

Samuel is another mystery to me. Crowley obviously is holding something over him, and it does seem like he's between a rock and a hard place, but he's still gotten a lot of his own family killed for this quest that he's on. And for that alone, IMO, he's got a lot to answer for.
gaelicspirit
Nov. 8th, 2010 10:40 pm (UTC)
Right now, for him, Sam's problem is the most important one, and I think he sees that as an absolute. And he expects those he calls friends to react to Sam's problem with the same urgency as he does.

Yeah, I can see that. I guess I meant by my comment that if Sam had never been destined to be a vessel, then he'd never have had to take in Lucifer and he'd never have had to fall into the Cage and he'd never have had to be without his soul. That's all I meant by Dean blaming the angels for being in this mess in the first place.

But I'm with you in Sam is Dean's focus and Dean expects his friends to be on board with that.

Sure it's a bit narrow-minded and not really considerate of others' circumstances, but I know there've been times when I've felt that my problem was the biggest deal in the whole world, and was rather put-off when people around me didn't think so, and my problem was no where near as dire as Dean's, so while I agree that Dean deserves to be chastised, I don't think he's delibrately being a jerk or treating Cas poorly becuase he thinks he can, he just is a little wrapped up in his own problems right now.

Heard loud and clear. I like your dad's philosophy, too. And believe me, hon, I am the first person to defend Dean and will do it until I'm the last person standing. I don't think he's conscious of what he's doing -- I'm with you, he's wrapped up in his own problems. But what worries me about all that is not how others -- namely Cas -- might feel about how Dean is or isn't treating them, but how it might come back to bite him in the ass. Because when you take people for granted, that's usually what happens.

And I don't one one more thing to hurt Dean, not when he's trying so damn hard, y'know?

LOVED Dean calling Cas his wingman! AWESOME!

Love that, too! Because it was funny and, on a personal note, I had Dean do the very same thing in my latest story, Sense. Cracked me up.

I said in your last meta that his old relationship with Sam left no room for him and what he wanted, but if Dean keeps this up, I see things changing and for the better. It might be a necessity now, but I hope that it just becomes something that comes naturally to Dean - for him to put his foot down and just say, "No. I don't approve of behaviour like that and if you want to behave that way fine but don't expect me to stick around and put up with it."

That could get really interesting. I like where your head is at.

Thank you for reading and posting your thoughts. Always a pleasure. :)
(no subject) - immie_8 - Nov. 9th, 2010 02:42 am (UTC) - Expand
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