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Stream of Consciousness, Episode 6.10

buckle up

“Why give me hope then give me up just to be the death of me? Save the rest of me. ‘Cause I see you, but I can’t feel you anymore. So go away. I need you but I can’t need you anymore….”

- Hesitate, by Stone Sour

Sorry. Melodramatic, I know. But it felt like it fit both of the guys, depending on how you chose to tilt your head.

 

I do this thing once in awhile with these rambles where before I can break down the story, I have to look at the characters for a moment. I think I need to do that now. Because, the way I see it, The Powers That Be are really asking us to go on a whole lotta faith that they’ve got this. That there’s a plan for our heroes. And that we’re still going to have them when this is all over.

I don’t mean to sound down; I’m not upset at all. In fact, I thought this was one of the best episode of the season so far.  No squee harshing intended, I assure you. But, I’m growing a little wary of where it's all going and I want to know that my faith will be rewarded. Y’know… without being spoiled.

*laughs* Yes, I’d like to have my cake and eat it, too. What?

I’ll start with the enigma.

Sam

I’ve just about given up trying to figure out the way they’re writing a person without a soul. When I’d review the show in previous seasons, I’d look through Sam’s eyes and think about things he’d had to deal with—like having to live a life he never really wanted because others told him he had to. I knew what it was like to want to break free of my past, of my family. I knew what it was like to live with my heart on my sleeve. There were ways I could find to relate to Sam and connect with his choices. Even when I didn’t understand them. Even when they scared me. I could see his path and sympathize with him.

But this season, it’s been pretty much impossible for me to employ my usual “understand Sam” tactics. It’s hard to imagine what it’s like to be the hollow man surrounded by those who care. He said he remembered what he was like before, but he no longer feels any of that. I ended up likening it to childbirth. Go with me for a minute. I remember that it hurt—a lot. I had an emergency C-section, but had gone into labor. NONE of that was fun. But…I don’t remember exactly how it felt. I just know that I did feel it.

That helped me go with it for a few episodes. But that analogy only works in retrospect because even though I know how bad it felt, if I were able to, I wouldn’t let the remembered pain of it stop me from having another baby. Because I know I’d forget it. Sam…he doesn’t have that reassurance. His pain will be constant because it’s the pain that comes with being human. We are conditioned to live with it because we always have. But he’s been without it for quite some time now.  And whether or not he currently cares about anyone or anything, going back to that pain—and the new promise of being squashed by an irrevocably damaged soul—is understandably unappealing.

What I can’t get around is how he fluctuates so widely. He’s not consistent in my eyes, as I personally interpret one who doesn’t care would act. The cold, heartless actions like allowing Dean to be turned by a vamp and bedding the hippie chic while Dean was missing clash harshly against his frantic search for Dean in Monster GITMO and beating the vamps off of him as well as the quiet look of betrayal when his Grandfather wouldn’t help them. I just struggle with giving Sam the benefit of the doubt for any reason other than he’s Dean’s brother. And…he was someone I used to know.

If he doesn’t get his soul back, who will he continue to evolve into? Will he be someone I can like? Will he be someone I care about? Will he be someone whose very presence around my hero hurts my heart? And…if he does get his soul back, will he really be Sam? Even if they can figure out a way to heal the damage, will his soul “remember” it and how will those memories mesh with the ones he’s currently creating as a hollow man?

The bottom line is, for me, the Sam I knew, the Sam I cared about, and the Sam I found reasons to love is gone. And he’s not coming back. He can’t, not the way they’ve set it up. Unless they actually pull God into the mix and wave a magic miracle wand to make it all better.

And I honestly don’t know how I feel about all that yet. I’ll figure it out, but I have to process a bit. One thing I’m wondering, though…if someone who doesn’t have a soul dies…would they go to Purgatory? And if so…do you think TPTB would dare go there? *hopes not*

And now, for the constant.

Dean

He’s always had a very special way of breaking my heart. Either through bravado and brashness or submission and a quiet folding inside himself. But this whole situation is making me ache for him. And perhaps I’m being overly dramatic. It is what it is. I am just honestly amazed that he’s keeping it together as well as he is.

Because he’s always had his soul, he’s always cared. Too much. And yeah, he was never locked in a cage with Michael and Lucifer to take out their frustrations on, so his soul wasn’t damaged to that extent—not even close, because he came back a fully functioning, caring human. And obviously I was mistaken in my thinking that it was because Castiel pulled him out since Cas said he wouldn’t begin to know how to fix Sam’s soul.

But now, after years of fighting and surviving and protecting…after dying and experiencing multiple levels of torture…after being thrust back into life to find a new balance…after standing next to his brother through addiction and betrayal…after being beaten nearly to death and watching with a shattered heart as his brother made the ultimate sacrifice…after living an entire year thinking his brother was going through the unthinkable and learning a lifestyle he’d never known before…after getting his brother back from the dead—only, not really…Dean finds himself faced with an impossible situation.

Part of Sam is here, with him. But the part that made Sam his brother, the part that gave Sam his heart and his life and his humanity is still trapped in Hell and what that part is going through is…unimaginable. And Dean can’t fix this—he can’t protect his brother and he can’t shield himself. Sam’s soul has to suffer because putting it back into the hollow Sam could destroy them both and then Dean will have lost everything and Sam—all of him, this time—will truly experience Hell. And Dean has to find a way to survive that or fight it and what kind of a choice is that?

Either way, it sure looks like he’s not going to be able to ever heal. Hell still chases him—that much was evident tonight with that dead-eyed, stone-face stare he gave Meg when she referenced Alistair. And Sam has made it abundantly clear that he will not be forced into doing something he hasn’t decided he wants to do for his own reasons.

There’s only so much Dean can do at this point, and I really don’t know how I feel about that, either.  The worst part is…Dean’s alone. Sam might be riding around in the car with him, and Bobby might be a phone call away, and Cas might want to be there, but the reality is, Dean’s utterly alone in this and that is the one thing he’s worked so hard to avoid all of his life. *rubs heart*

Okay, I think I’m ready to ramble now. I’ll try not to bore you.

The Ramble

We start with Crowley torturing himself. No, seriously. It’s the Alpha Shifter and he’s made himself into Crowley, which I have to admit would be a wonderfully effective deterrent to torture, were you not dealing with The King Of Hell. The Alpha Shifter continues to assert that he doesn’t know where Purgatory is. Crowley wants him to appreciate how hard he worked to find something that would actually hurt the shifter: iridium (is that right?).

Crowley: You start talking, or I start chopping off the bits that stick out.

That’s just…creepy.

The shifter continues to resist. Crowley holds up a baby monitor and says that the prison has a nursery. You can hear babies crying on the monitor. Crowley uses them as leverage and says he’ll fillet them as the shifter watches.

Shifter: Kill them all. We’ll make more.

Weary of the whole thing, Crowley chops off the shifter’s head with a snarky, “Guess I kinda lost my head.”

Okay, so what I want to know is…did he really have those babies?? And if so, what happened to them?? I know they were monsters and all, but…they were babies. Even Dean couldn’t kill the shifter baby. When Cas 86’d the monsters at the end…were the babies included?? *bites lip* Did I use enough question marks????

Next thing you know, the Impala pulls up outside what looks like a big power plant. A large, black SUV and two mobster-wannabe demons are waiting for them. Dean hauls a guy wearing a black hood out of the back seat and hands him over to one of the demons.

Dean: Traffic was a bitch.

Sam: One rugaru.

I can’t remember right off—isn’t that the homicidal clown?

It’s unclear to me if that was the Alpha rugaru or just a worker-bee rugaru. It’s quickly obvious, though, that the guys have been hauling in Bad Guys and handing them over to Crowley’s henchmen without seeing hide nor hair of the King for quite some time. Dean asks where Crowley is.

Demon: Banging a hooker in a sweet spot called none of your business.

Dean: Lookit that, Sam! A demon trying to be funny.

Dean wants to know if they’re ever going to see Crowley again, but the demon is all taunty and claims to not understand him because he doesn’t “speak bitch.” Dean’s face sasses back, but he doesn’t say anything as the demons leave.

So, while Crowley might’ve said he’d give them Sam’s soul in exchange for a fiddle of gold—er, sorry, I mean an Alpha, it’s evident he knew how hard it would be to get an Alpha and happily kept the boys in indentured servitude bringing in baddies. Which, on one hand, they’re getting the baddies off the streets. But…on the other hand….

Dean: Remember when we used to gank demons?

Yeah. There is that.

They head to where they’re staying—and this time it looks like it could be an abandoned house or something. It’s really dark in there, so it’s hard to really tell, but the walls look rough and worn down and it just has this “abandoned house” feel to it. However, there is TV and electricity, so I don’t know. Maybe it was just a skanky motel. Either way, they’re there and Dean’s worked up because he’s just done. They’ve been going on Crowley runs for months and the only thing that’s changed is that he needs a daily rape shower.

Sam is trying to calm him down, but then get a “screw it” tone and says they have no Plan B, so stock up on soap on a rope.

Sam: If you want to get my soul back, that’s what we gotta do.

Hmm…if you want to….

Dean: You even want it back?

He’s pushing, challenging, testing, tired of this whole gig. He wants his brother back. Like Hollow Sam said a few months ago.

Sam: I’m working for Crowley aren’t I?

Yeah, that’s not an answer.

Dean: Who says Crowley’s going to hold up his end?

He turns away to pour some whiskey into a random ceramic cup and when he turns back, Sam is gone.

Dean: Guess the moment’s over, that what you’re saying? Sam? Sam?

When he doesn’t get an answer, he puts his cup down, pulls out his gun and goes to investigate. He sees Sam in the other room, out cold on the floor. He moves toward him and gets clocked by a demon holding a…crowbar or big stick or something. Anyway, Dean’s awake first, watching Sam come around. They’re tied to chairs, facing each other.

Dean: What now?

Sam: I think I know who to ask.

Dean half-glances over his shoulder.

Dean: E-vol bitch. (He really does stretch it out like that.)

Meg (wearing the dark-haired girl from last season and making me miss Nikki Aycox): Keep sweet talkin’ and this could go in a whole new direction.

Long story short(er), she wants to know where Crowley is, but they say they don’t know.

Meg: You’ve been working his beat for months.

Sam: Doesn’t mean we get face time.

I found it a little interesting how they gave us a timeline of sorts here. I mean, we only found out, what, two episodes ago that they were going to have to work for Crowley? And now it’s been months.

Meg straddles Dean’s lap and asks him where Crowley takes all the baddies they bring in. Dean just stares at her, his eyes blank, his face impassive, but somehow still managing to radiate hatred in her direction. It’s impressive. And…kinda hot, actually. She gets irritated quickly and pulls the demon-killing knife out and presses it against his throat, saying that the foreplay was over.

Meg: Satisfy me or I please myself.

Sam chuckles. And he has very white teeth, I noticed.

Dean: Something funny, Sam?

Sam: Yeah. Meg. She’s totally screwed.

Meg presses the knife in a bit and Dean’s all, “Not. Helping.”

Bridging the exposition gap, Sam rather accurately surmises that Meg’s running. If she could kill them, she’d have done it by now. She’s running from Crowley, which makes sense, Sam thinks, because Crowley would want to hunt down all the Lucifer loyalists now that he’s BMOC. Sam knows it because that’s what he would do. Which is…oddly disturbing and reassuring at the same time. Anyway, Meg can’t kill them, he says, because she needs them to get to Crowley so that she can kill him. It’s him or her.

Dean: I hope you both lose. So, g’luck.

Sam (to Meg, who is still straddling Dean): Work with us.

Dean: Whoa, what?

Sam: We’ll give you Crowley, but you have to get him to give something up first. Can you do that?

Meg stands, listening to Sam, then tosses a saucy look over her shoulder at Dean and says, “I apprenticed under Alistair just like your brother. So, Dean, can I make Crowley do what I want?”

Dean’s eyes go flat and memories turn his face to stone as he pushes out, “Yeah, she can,” on a thin breath. pickamix  I thought of your fic in that part. Even though you had Ruby, not Meg. It still fit.

Bouncing her head a bit, Meg says brightly, “It’s a deal, then. Hugs and puppies all around.”

Okay, total aside…I wonder why she still goes by ‘Meg’? I mean, that was the name of the girl she possessed when we first met her—Meg Masters from Andover. And that Meg is dead, so…I wonder why we never got her real demon name? I guess I kinda figured Ruby was the name of the demon, not the blonde she wore when we first met her—mainly because she’d been human once. So, what’s the deal, Meg?

Anyway. Dean asks if she’s going to untie them and she says something I missed, but apparently it had something to do with them being able to do it themselves, because the demons leave and they boys are suddenly untied (although, not before one demon pauses long enough next to Dean to prompt him to say, “You gonna kiss me?” Hee).

Dean’s all, what the hell, Sam?

Sam: You wanted to screw over Crowley. Merry Christmas.

Dean: You want to work with a demon again?

Sam: We’re working with demons now. I’m doing this because I want to stop.

Dean: She killed Ellen and Jo!

Not to mention Caleb and Pastor Jim. And she almost killed Dean while inside Sam. Meg needs to die. I really hope she has a significant role coming up because, seriously? Why is she still alive?

Sam: You can’t look at this emotionally, Dean. We need her.

Dean: That little bitch is gonna screw us over so fast….

Sam: We’ll screw her first. We’re bringing insurance.

At this point, I thought he meant they’d bring her bones—hold them hostage. But, no. While Dean is inside…researching or something…Sam goes outside and calls for Castiel. Hilariously, he claims that they’ve found a gold box that the Nazi’s wanted back in the day, only when they opened it, it melted their faces off. I was grinning at that, even before Cas showed up asking for the box and Sam revealed that it was the plot to Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark.

This exchange between Sam and Cas had me really feeling for Cas and irritated with Sam—soul or no soul. I’m starting to get over the whole not being able to blame him for being a jerk simply because he has no soul thing. He has a brain. He’s able to reason. And he knew exactly what he was doing and saying to Castiel—a soldier in the middle of a bloody Civil War that just because Sam and Dean can’t see it, is no less real.

Sam: I can’t believe you fell for that.

Cas: I’m mid-battle.

Sam: I don’t care—you owe me.

Which, yeah, I would concede that point. Dean said the same thing the first time they were able to pull Cas down to pay attention to them. Sam made the ultimate sacrifice and stopped Armageddon. However, that didn’t result in utopia and a war was now raging. Cas owes him, but his reward may have to wait.

Cas: You may not care—

Sam: Do you really think you’re here to talk this out? If you don’t help us, I will hunt you down and kill you.

*blink*

At that, Cas’ whole demeanor changes. He shifts from a weary plea for understanding to the squared shouldered Being who reminded Dean that he’d be wise to not cross him as he was the one who’d pulled him from Hell and he could put him back there. He steps up to Sam (and dude, I never realized how short Castiel was in comparison to Sam—he and Dean always seemed evenly matched, but Sam just towered over him).

Cas: Will you, boy? How?

Sam: I don’t know yet, but I will look until I find out. And I don’t sleep.

Cas: You need help, Sam.

Sam: I need your help.

*takes big breath*

So…I think that’s going to come into play again. Sam threatening to kill Cas? I don’t think that was said lightly. It wasn’t some temper tantrum. It was a serious threat. And something in me says that Sam wouldn’t hesitate to do so if he were able to gain something out of it. Even if that gain was a twisted sense of retribution.

They head inside the room where the guys are staying and Dean comes around the corner with papers in his hands, totally surprised to see Cas behind Sam.

Dean: You actually showed. Well, Sam, I owe you a chicken dinner. What happened?

Sam: No big. This is what friends do for each other.

Dean kinda nods with a slightly uncertain half-smile on his face. Cas does his summoning/scrying thing but he can’t find Crowley. Dean says they have to do it the hard way, which evidently means going to Gramps’ office and poking around until they get caught. Dean tells Gramps they want to know where Crowley is, but Gramps won’t tell them.

Sam: I’m going to get my soul back.

Gramps: Who says you can get it back?

Sam: Me.

Almost in a, don’t you dare tell me I can’t, tone of voice.

Dean (to Gramps): What’s wrong with you? Do you want to work for Crowley?

He asks Cas to leave for some reason I didn’t understand and then steps closer to Gramps. The look on Dean’s face in this whole part is arresting. It shifts from confrontation to disbelief to remembered pain to desperation to anger and finally betrayal. It’s a journey of what he’s been through and what he’s survived. Watching him and listening to him, I could hear echoes of what’s dead should stay dead and I couldn’t let him die…he’s m’brother.

Dean: We’re your blood, and if you don’t want to help, I can’t make you. But I just want to know why. What’s Crowley holding over you? You owe us that.

Gramps takes out a pic of Mary and I think I said out loud, “I knew it!” Apparently, Crowley has promised to bring her back to life if Gramps does his bidding.

Gramps: The one difference between us is that you know how to live without her.

I have to say…I felt a tug of sympathy toward Gramps for the first time with that statement. I’ve been forced to contemplate my husband’s mortality and I know that while half of me would be gone, I would be able to live without him. I’ve nearly lost parents and a couple siblings and their loss would gut me, but I would be able to move on.

But if I lost Mo Chuisle, I don’t know that I could survive it. I know readers of this ramble have survived such a loss and have found a way to build a life around that hole inside of them. And they have my admiration and my respect. I don’t know if I’d have that strength. I don’t ever want to find out. I could see why the promise of something like that would drive Gramps to follow Crowley’s orders.

Especially if he somehow found out the whole story. If he’d found out that she died because of him, really. Because he wasn’t strong enough to overcome the YED’s hold on him—as John did to save Dean’s life—and stop YED from forcing Mary to make the deal for John’s life. And that the result of that deal was that his daughter was gutted and burned on the ceiling of her youngest son’s nursery.

Dean: I know how you feel….

Gramps: No, you don’t. She’s my daughter and she’s dead.

Dean: You really think he’s gonna make good?

Gramps: He brought Sam back! And me!

Dean pleads with him, his whole being coiled, his eyes hot. Sam stands off to the side, silent the whole time. Unable or unwilling to break in. What could he say, really? He’s never made a deal for another’s life. Mary did for John. John did for Dean. Dean did for Sam. And now their Grandfather was.

Dean: Don’t go down that road; it’s gonna go nowhere good. I’m your grandson and I’m saying this is wrong for so many reasons.

Gramps: You hypocrite.

Dean: I’m asking you to learn from our mistakes! This is how the bad guys get us every time. It’s our Achilles heel. Apparently, it runs in the family.

Gramps still says no, he won’t help.

Dean: Fine! But what are you going to tell her? That you made a deal with a demon? That you wouldn’t help out her sons?

Gramps tells them to get out and Dean turns and exits without another word. Sam, however, pauses long enough to let his Grandfather see the weight of his betrayal.

Back at the Possibly Abandoned House That Could Also Be A Skanky Motel Room, Cas is staring at the TV while the guys are at the table looking at some papers.

Cas: This is very complex.

Guys (in unison, not looking up): Mmmhmm.

Cas: If the pizza man truly loves this babysitter—

Guys look up, confused, at each other, surprised, then over at Cas, troubled. The sound of porn can be heard from the TV.

Cas: --why does he keep slapping her rear? Perhaps she’s done something wrong.

Dean: You’re watching porn? Why?

Cas: It was there.

Dean: You don’t…watch porn in a room full of dudes. And you don’t talk about it.

Cas looks down.

Dean (to Sam): Now he’s got a boner.

*smirks*

Okay, I’m pretty much over the idea that angels are honestly Heavenly beings in this ‘verse. Especially Castiel. He’s the most human angel we’ve seen. And I liked this whole exchange because it was a lighter moment in a heavier episode and it clicked Dean and Cas as friends while Sam and Cas were quietly at odds. It also set up a funny one-liner coming up and Castiel’s behavior with Meg.

But…that said? I don’t get why they chose to write that scene. Y’know? Like what are they trying to do with Cas? Is he to be a conflicted-character angel who becomes weary of war and wants to “fall” so that he can experience all that humanity has to offer—ala Anna? Is he just supposed to be comic relief? Am I over thinking it and it’s just this particular writer’s way of giving the guys something more real-life and less fight-related?

Anyway, there’s a knock at the door and Dean pulls his gun and goes to answer it. It’s Gramps. Dean lets him in and Gramps sees the TV.

Gramps: This is what you boys do? Sit around watching pornos with angels?

Cas: We’re not supposed to talk about it.

Hee.

Sam turns off the TV.

Gramps apparently decided to help them, he says, because it’s what Mary would want. But, remember, Gramps is a lying liar who lies. I never trusted him—tug of sympathy or not. He gives Dean a map with the location of the place where Crowley is storing the baddies they bring in, but warns them that it’s a death trap. Dean’s all, “thanks, buh-bye.”

Sam: Come with us.

Gramps: I may be soft, but I’m not suicidal.

Nice. Anyway, they call Meg and her crew and Meg and Castiel face off in a supernatural pissing match.

Meg: Remember me? I remember you, Clarice.

Cas: Why are we working with these…abominations?

Dean: Simmer down.

Then, it’s Sam and Meg’s turn to face off about trust and stupidity and Sam manages to convince her to give him the demon-killing knife which he promptly thrusts into the belly of one of her henchmen saying that the demon was more interested in killing them than working together—although the dude hadn’t so much as blinked wrong in their direction.

Dean and Cas stare at Sam all, holy theatrics, Batman.

Sam, though, manages to keep the demon-killing knife that Meg had stolen from them that they had rightfully stolen from Ruby. So there. They split up to gear up and Sam’s at the Impala’s trunk stuffing things into the back looking Serious and Thoughtful. Dean is inside stuffing things into a bag and Cas is…just sitting there.

Dean: You could help.

Cas: I’m ambivalent about what we’re attempting.

Dean: Breaking into Monster GITMO isn’t exactly two-for-one in the Champaign room.

Cas: I’m not sure retrieving Sam’s soul is wise.

Dean: Wait, what?

Yeah, exactly.

Cas had to have known the minute he told them that the reason for Sam’s behavior was that his soul was missing they would seek out a way to get it back. He couldn’t have mentioned before that it wasn’t such a good idea? This is just…weird timing. Sam goes from, huh, my soul’s gone, to I was that other Sam for a long time and I want to get him back, to I’m willing to work for a demon to get my soul back even though having a soul equals suffering, and now after we’ve seen the Carside Furrowed Brow Of Doubt…now is when Cas says maybe this isn’t such a good idea?

*frowns*

Cas: I want him to survive. Sam’s soul has been locked in the cage with Michael and Lucifer and they’ve got nothing to do but take their frustrations out on him. If we were to try to force that mutilated thing down Sam’s gullet we have no idea what will happen. It could be catastrophic.

Dean: You mean he dies?

Cas: I mean he doesn’t. Paralysis. Insanity. Psychic pain so profound he could be locked inside himself for life.

Dean: But he could be fine.

His voice conveys what every parent, guardian, or caretaker would feel when confronted with a potentially negative prognosis: please tell me that what you’re saying isn’t the only truth…please tell me there could be another way…please tell me my loved one will come back to me.

Cas: It’s doubtful.

Dean: If he’s not fine, you fix him.

Cas: I wouldn’t know where to begin.

Dean’s voice is shaking. I couldn’t pull my hand from my chest in this moment. He needs his brother back so badly—and until this moment he’d thought it was just about finding a way to wrestle the soul from a demon’s control and keep Sam convinced that this is a good idea—which was daunting enough—but now he’s being told that returning the one thing that would also return Sam to him very likely will destroy Sam—soul Sam and body Sam.

It’s almost too much. He can’t wrap his mind around it. So, he does what he’s always done: he ducks his head and squares his shoulders and pushes his way through the chaos, swinging the whole time.

Dean: Then you figure it out, Cas. The guy’s a [field relic? I didn’t catch it]. He needs his soul. We get him back and if there are complications, we figure out a way to deal with those, too.

Cas: Or…we fail. And Sam suffers horrifically.

Dean looks away and we see Sam standing quietly in the shadows—having heard the whole thing. *gulp*

I’m going to go to the Hell is Hell conversation for a brief second. I’d been worried about them comparing experiences—whose was worse. I think this is their way around it. Yes, Sam’s soul is getting squashed in the cage—but we’re not seeing the ramifications of that inside this Sam yet. And the way they’re setting it up…it could be that the only way to save Sam—body and soul—is to erase that damage. Somehow. Sparing him the trauma of Hell. But that could mean Sam remains soulless for…well, who knows how long.

That doesn’t detract (in my mind) from the pain Dean endured and remembered. It doesn’t lessen the tragedy of his nightmares and the fact that those experiences haunt him still. And it doesn’t diminish the strength of character and stalwartness of will that Dean exhibits on a daily basis simply pushing forward and fighting the good fight the only way he knows how when we’ve seen how very close to the surface his fears and weaknesses are hiding.

And it shows (in my mind) that the threat of The Cage was real and horrible and the sacrifice Sam made by willingly falling into it was huge and valid and necessary. And if his soul is still intact even a little bit after more than a year of being kicked around by disgruntled, warring angels, it shows how strong it was to begin with. If this is the way they work around keeping both tours in the Pit relevant to the individual characters, I can get on board.

Anyway, the unlikely group of Winchesters, Cas, Meg, and two demonic henchmen are standing outside Monster GITMO. Cas has them meet him at the side door and he’s able to poof in and open it from the inside. Way. Too. Easy. The place looks like an old jail—in one cell is a dead, mutilated body of some baddie, in another, a vamp crashes against a shadowed window, in a third the female djinn—looking much worse for the wear—pleads with them to let her out. Dean looks disturbed by her begging, but Sam urges him on.

Cas calls them all to a stop, sensing the Hellhounds (some guards they are) and Dean looks terrified for one brief moment before barking at them, no pun intended, to run. The Hellhounds take out the two henchmen Meg had brought with her and Sam and Dean are able to bolt a door and spread out a line of salt, but it won’t hold them off for long.

Meg tries to leave, saying she’ll let the HH nosh on her meat suit, but there’s some spell on the place and she’s trapped inside her body. Heh.

Dean: Karma’s a bitch, Bitch.

Sam hands Meg the demon-killing knife because she can see the HHs, but in a really unlikely and slightly bizarre turn, Meg says no, that’s the best thing they have to kill Crowley, so she’ll hold the HHs off while they go after him. And as great as that was for her to say and all…had that worked, it wouldn’t have gotten them what they wanted: namely, Meg torturing Crowley for Sam’s soul. Oh well.

Dean’s asking how the hell she plans on holding them off if they have the knife, and Meg suddenly kisses Cas, slipping her hand inside his trench coat to lift his Angel Sword. The actual sword. Before anyone can say “bleach my eyes,” Cas grabs Meg close, turns her, and presses her against the wall, kissing her hard.

Sam’s eyebrows go up, but Dean is all, uhhh…kissing…hellhounds just outside…brain…short…circuiting….

Meg: What was that?

Cas steps back, slightly breathless, and says, “I learned that from the pizza man.”

Dean’s expression is hilarious, and the moment is quirky and grin-worthy, but writing-wise, I wasn’t really sure of the point of it. Even with my “go with it” hat on. Anyway, my neon question mark aside, Meg reveals that she now has Cas’ Angel Sword—and come to think of it…did he get it back?? The three guys run and she faces the now-rattling doors as the HHs blow the salt-line free and break through. She starts slashing with the Angel Sword.

The guys are making their way down a staircase, Dean griping that he can’t see jack, when suddenly a brilliant light flashes and Cas is gone. It’s Gramps. At the bottom of the stairs. His hand on the Angel-Be-Gone sigil. Grrrr….

Dean’s all, “You sold us out?!”

Crowley appears behind Gramps and calmly says that it’s the best purchase he ever made. Grrrr! Demons haul the brothers away and lock them in adjoining cells.

Meanwhile, Meg finishes off the last of the HHs and is covered in gray blood (weird). She starts to head down the hall in the direction the guys ran off to only to be knocked down by Demon!Christian who takes the Angel Sword.

The guys are pacing around in their cells.

Dean: Sam? I’m standing in pee.

Sam: Consider yourself lucky.

Dean: Yikes.

Gramps opens the little window in Dean’s cell.

Dean: You want forgiveness find a priest.

Gramps: I just want you to understand.

Okay, so in retrospect, I do have to wonder what he was going to say here. I can understand the choice to bring your child back rather than your spouce, I can. And I also can understand the selfish need to not live with out them--it's part of what drove Dean to make his deal. But it just seems like there might be something...more. Not sure what, exactly. Maybe I'm looking too deep. Again. 

Dean: I understand that you’re a liar.

I’ve been SAYING!

Dean: You talk about putting blood first? You sound like my Dad. Difference is? He actually did.

You know that’s right.

Gramps: I am putting blood first. Mary’s my daughter. You sold out your own mother! It was her or Sam and you chose Sam, plain and simple.

How does he figure that, I wonder? What event is he talking about, exactly? Dean was never in a position to save Mary, not once. He was either four years old, or prevented by angel interference.

Dean: That is such crap. You want to know what happened? You chose a demon over your own grandsons.

Guess choosing demons over family runs in the family, too.

Gramps: I don’t even know what Sam is. And you’re a stranger. Tell me, who are you supposed to be to me?

Oh, that’s rich! Coming from the man who cornered Dean in Lisa’s kitchen and slathered on the “family comes first” guilt 14 layers thick.

And if I might have a shallow moment? Dean’s face framed in that cell window, with his jaw pulled tight and his eyes lit up with righteous fury looked four kinds of gorgeous.

Dean: I’ll tell you who I am. I’m the guy you never want to see again. ‘Cause I’ll make it out of here, trust me. Next time you see me, I’ll be there to kill you.

*bad. ass.*

Gramps: Don’t think there’s gonna be a next time.

Dean: Whatever gets you through the night.

I couldn’t help but think about the fact that Sam can hear all of this. I wonder what he was thinking as he listened to his Grandfather accuse his brother of putting him first—over everyone, even their mother—and his brother promise (not threaten, promise) to kill his Grandfather. No amount of therapy would be enough were these real guys.

Gramps steps away and in moments two demons show up and haul Dean out of his cell, past Gramps, and down the hall. Elsewhere, Meg is strapped down, naked (with prudently placed leather straps) to a cross-shaped metal torture table and Demon!Christian is working her over, though he never really asks her any questions and she doesn’t tell him anything. The main thing we get is that she’s scared.

Sam is pacing in his cell, then he crouches against a wall, thinking…next thing you know, he bites his own wrist and I have to say I was totally confused as to what he was up to. Also? OUCH.

Dean gets tossed into what looks like a communal shower room for the eternally damned: bathtub filled with browned, dried blood and leftover intestines, blood all over the walls, a half-eaten body on the shower floor. Two vamps are thrown in there with him and he makes a Shawshank Redemption quip before his face falls as he realizes he’s in Really Big Trouble.

Back in Sam’s cell, the two demons come in after him. He’s cowering across the room on the floor and asks what they did to his brother. They cross the room saying he’ll be joining his brother soon when suddenly they can’t move. They look up—Sam’s painted a Devil’s Trap with his own blood on the ceiling. He grins slightly maniacally—his teeth bloody— and I think the half-crazed look in his eye might've actually scared the demons a bit. He heads out in search of Dean.

I did have to wonder, though, how much blood that actually took—and how come he wasn’t weak from blood loss. Also…how did he bandage the wound? I didn’t think super healing was a byproduct of being soulless. *wink*

Dean is fighting tooth and nail against the two vamps (at least, I think they were vamps...they didn't sprout teeth, so, hmmm). He’s getting his butt kicked, but he’s not giving an inch. Sam finds him by following the grunts and cries and literally rips a pipe off the wall to beat the vamps off of Dean.

Back in the torture room, Demon!Christian is apparently raping Meg with a knife. It’s just…a horrifying concept all together. And I know it might sound cruel, but…that didn't make me feel sorry for her. The moment he stopped, she was all cocky and bad-ass and saying it was just the body she was wearing, some poor Midwest girl who came to LA to be an actress. Regardless of the method of torture, I just couldn’t get past the fact that this was Meg. She’d wiped out about half of the only family Sam and Dean had. The only reason I could come up with for why we were seeing how she was being tortured wasn't so that we'd have sympathy for her, but that we'd know what torture for Dean could have been like. At least...that's where I went with it. 

The best part was that mid-torture, she started to laugh. Confused, Demon!Christian stood up and is all, why are you laughing? Suddenly, the tip of the demon-killing knife is protruding from his chest and she’s like, “Dean Winchester is behind you.”

And…Christian is dead. That was…kinda fast and not as satisfying as I’d wanted it to be. Still, Dean got to kill him, and I suppose that under the circumstances, that’s something. Dean releases Meg from the rack and as he turns to her, something like sympathy crosses his face. I can only imagine the memories seeing that rack and those weapons of torture must have resurrected inside of  him. *pets him*

Crowley goes into the female djinn’s cell and is all set and ready for a nice long chat when suddenly, the fire alarm goes off. He leaves her and goes to investigate, finding dead Demon!Christian on the floor next to the torture rack. Dean turns off the alarm and as Crowley turns to face him, Sam swings that pipe like he’s stretching for a home run, knocking Crowley for a loop.

Crowley staggers back, then realizes that he stumbled directly into another Devil’s Trap (only this one looks like it was spray painted).

Crowley: To what do I owe the reach around?

Meg: Crowley.

Crowley: Whore.

Meg lifts her fist and Crowley bows with pain. Sam demands his soul back and Crowley says no. Meg does the fist thing again and Crowley says he can’t get it. He was doing good to get Sam out—the bits left behind, well…. Then he asks Sam why he wants it back. He basically reiterates what Cas said about it being obliterated by Michael and Lucifer.

Sam hands Meg the knife to let her kill Crowley.

Dean: But he’s our only hope.

Sam: He can’t get it. He’s useless.

Meg steps into the Devil’s Trap and is all, “This is for Lucifer….” Of course it’s not going to be that easy to kill the King Of Hell. He sweeps her legs, knocks her down, grabs the knife, and throws it up into the ceiling and breaks the Devil’s Trap. Stepping free, he grabs the knife and points it at Meg.

Crowley: You don’t know torture you little insect.

Suddenly, Cas shows up carrying a bag that Sam put in the trunk of the Impala. “Leave them alone.”

Crowley: Castiel. I haven’t seen you all season.

BWAHH!!! Now, that was funny.

Crowley: You the cavalry now?

Cas: Put the knife down.

Crowley: You’re losing to Raphael. The whole affair makes Vietnam look like a roller derby. What’s in the gift bag?

Cas (holding up a very weathered human skull): You are.

Crowley (looking genuinely afraid): Not possible.

Cas: Didn’t hide your bones as well as you should have.

So…did Sam find them? Or is that why he needed Cas, really? To find Crowley’s bones? *is curious*

Cas: Can you restore Sam’s soul or not?

He drops the bag to the floor.

Crowley: I can’t.

And then, Cas lights the bones on fire. Just like that, Crowley begins to burn and within moments, he’s a pile of ash. Honestly? I can’t believe he’s gone. It was so fast. I can’t believe I’m going to say this, but I’m going to miss him.

And now what happens in a Hell that has no King? Anarchy? Chaos? I mean, it’s Hell. I wouldn’t expect it to be very ordered anyway. I wonder how a ruler-less Hell will impact the war in Heaven. Or the surplus of baddies on Earth. And what of the whole Alpha surge? That’s not going anywhere.

Oh! Just thought of something…would Crowley have gone back to Hell since he’s dead? Or…is he in Purgatory? Wouldn’t that be ironic? But I guess now the guys are no longer beholden to a demon…. They still have baddies running amuck, but in a way, they kinda…lost their compass. They’re not missionless, but they no longer have clear orders to accomplish the mission.

Sam bends to pick up the demon-killing knife from the pile of Crowley ashes and Meg vanishes.

Dean: She’s smart. I was going to kill her, too. (glances at Cas) I would have given you an hour with her, first.

Cas: Why would I want that?

Dean lets his small sigh be his answer.

Back at the car, Dean gives Cas a genuine thank you for his help in keeping them in one piece, again. Looking just this side of desperate, Cas says that Crowley was right—things are not going well for him upstairs.

Dean: Is there anything we can do?

Cas: No. I wish circumstances were different. I’d rather be here.

He looks so…earnest and sad that I felt bad for him. And the lines around his eyes echoed Dean’s in mutual weariness and fear. He looked very human in that moment.

Dean: Cas, we know you’ve got a steaming pile on your plate. No apologies. We’re your friends.

Awww! I take back what I said in an earlier ramble about Dean showing Cas more respect. He knows Cas is his friend and what’s more, he is Cas’. And that’s invaluable to Dean. ‘Course, he doesn’t know that Sam threatened to kill Cas if the angel didn’t help…but I think it’s best that he not know that just yet.

Cas: Listen, Sam. We’ll find another way.

Sam: You really want to help? We have a prison full of monsters. Can’t leave ‘em, can’t let ‘em go.

Cas: I understand. *poof*

*whispers: but what about the baby shifters??*

Dean: He’s right. About your soul. We’ll figure something out.

Sam: No we won’t. Putting it back in would squash me to bits.

Dean: We don’t know that.

Sam: When angels and demons agree, I pay attention.

Dean: You say this now after we practically died trying to get it back?

Sam: Exactly! How many times are we going to risk our asses for this? I don’t think I want it back.

Dean: You don’t know what you’re saying.

Sam: No, I’m saying something you don’t like. You obviously care a lot, but I’m better off without it.

Dean: You’re wrong.

Sam: I’m not sure about that.

He turns his back on Dean and walks away.

Dean: Sam, don’t walk away.

His voice is pleading, not ordering. He wants so badly to convince Sam otherwise, and the certainty in Sam’s voice is terrifying to him. I can imagine that he can relate to Sam’s resistance on some level—after all, when he came back from Hell he wished he couldn’t feel anything, he hurt so bad. Sam has to remember that, too. The hollow man next to Dean is not his brother, and yet, the ruined soul in the cage isn’t his brother, either. Not in the way Dean remembers him. Not in the way he used to be.

Dean calls after Sam, over and over, but Sam continues to walk away.

We have one more episode before the Holiday Hiatus, and the previews look to be a doozy. I have a feeling, though, that we’re going to be left breathless and pressing a hand to our hearts to keep them in place. I just hope that in the second half of the season, our heroes are rewarded for their valiant struggle to find a way out of this mess.

And we’re rewarded for sticking with them through it all.

Thanks for reading.
 

 


Comments

( 129 Tall Tales — Tell Me A Story )
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borgmama1of5
Dec. 4th, 2010 08:34 am (UTC)
You picked up on the same 'why is that scene there?' I had with Cas and the porn and kissing Meg.

I want to think that Sam's frantic rush to rescue Dean means something more than inconsistant writing, because I want it to be Dean's heroic efforts that restore Sam.

This is a hard season to watch...but riveting. As long as we get a payoff!
gaelicspirit
Dec. 4th, 2010 03:17 pm (UTC)
I want to think that Sam's frantic rush to rescue Dean means something more than inconsistant writing, because I want it to be Dean's heroic efforts that restore Sam.

I'm with you; I don't know if that's actually the case, but I want it to be true as well. It's hard to say because, for me, the writing hasn't been consistent for Sam's character -- but that could just be me being picky. *shrugs*

Picky or not, they're always pretty consistent with Dean's, so either Dean's storyline is simply just easier to write for because, as another commentor astutely pointed out, he's "everyman" or no one can really agree on how a soulless person would behave, having nothing to really reference or compare it to.

It is riveting. Part of that is how these boys play it off and tug on our hearts. *sniff*

Thank you for reading! See you next week?

Oh, PS

I never heard back from you after the "here's a little about me" PM from months ago. *smiles* I figured you read it and were like...we don't have much in common. *wink* I'd still love to hear back, though, when you find the time.
immie_8
Dec. 4th, 2010 08:35 am (UTC)
Hey gaelic,

Haven't had much time to comment lately, but I always enjoy your metas!

It's late here, so I'm just going to make a couple of comments. Loved Dean in this episode, especially when he was talking to Samuel through the prison door and when he was speaking with Cas at the end. Hope to see much more on both of those fronts.

Also, I don't think that Cas chose to stay because Sam threatened him. If he wanted to, he probably could snap his fingers and Sam would go poof, like Crowley did. I think he stuck around because he really does want to get Sam the help he needs because he likes Sam, but more than that, he knows how much it means to Dean. While I'm sure Cas likes Sam well enough, it's Dean who truly seems to come first in Cas' thoughts.

Which, now, actually leads me to wonder what Raphael might try if the tide starts to turn against him. If I knew that my opponent was very attached to a certain human, I'd definately consider using said human as leverage.

Lastly, I hope that this whole soul plotline is resolved soon. It's actually my least favourite aspect of the season, and trying to fill in all of the logic gaps is really getting rather annoying.

Take care,

immie_8
gaelicspirit
Dec. 4th, 2010 03:22 pm (UTC)
I hear you on the busy. Lordy! What are they words on your avi? I practically pressed my nose to the screen to read them. The "BREAK" being so large pulled me in.

I don't think that Cas chose to stay because Sam threatened him.

Oh, I don't think that, either. I didn't mean to insinuate that by my ramble. I was just a bit shocked that Sam had threatened him -- and I believe he meant it, too. I think once Cas was down there and saw the state Sam was in -- willing to threaten something like that -- he knew he was truly needed. And I kinda think he wanted to check on Dean, too, y'know?

Which, now, actually leads me to wonder what Raphael might try if the tide starts to turn against him. If I knew that my opponent was very attached to a certain human, I'd definately consider using said human as leverage.

Oh, my! I hadn't thought of this, but you've got a really good point! And it's both a horrific and incredible intriguing thought. *ponders*

I'll chew on that a bit, for sure.

I have a feeling that now that they've played the "mutilated soul" card, this story line may very well carry us through the season. I hope not, but that's what led me to my, "please have my faith paid off in the end" comment.

Thank you for reading! See you soon!
txgirl0302
Dec. 4th, 2010 08:35 am (UTC)
Still somewhat reeling from this episode. So many things happened way too fast and I'm still trying to process it all. I called a few things and a few things came as a surprise.

These guys...they never cease to amaze me.
gaelicspirit
Dec. 4th, 2010 03:27 pm (UTC)
If you process further and want to talk it out, I'd love to hear your thoughts. We're usually close to, if not on, the same page. :)

And yes, I'm with you. They do continue to amaze. :)

See you soon!
heartlessbytchh
Dec. 4th, 2010 08:44 am (UTC)
I have "Carry On My Wayward Son" rolling through my head so hard right now. I think that's the defining song for the Winchester Brothers.

Yes. I do believe that TPTB have a plan for them. I believe until that time they and we the faithful viewers need to believe in that and hold fast. Besides, I want more angst out of this bumpy ride before it's over.

The quality of Show has been extremely high so far this season. Usually when a show is in it's final season, it's hit or miss on Story line. Yes, we have some new writers. But look at the wonderful stuff they're cranking out for us!
heartlessbytchh
Dec. 4th, 2010 09:10 am (UTC)
Oh GS, don't worry about where Show is going with SimSam. I think Show is trying to bring everyone down as low as they can like a bad Danielle Steele book. That way when they give the "happy ending", ( lol, I said "happy ending")everyone will be so djinn djuiced(gin juiced) they'll be so happy for the "happy ending".(lol, I said it again)
Did that make any sense at all?

I just want Show to keep it's integrity. If it has to end all Bad and Bloody, so be it. As long as they do it right and don't sell out to the majority. Personally, I think sometimes when it's sold out to certain sections of fandom, it's weakened itself.

As far as understanding Sam, don't even try. You'd have better luck trying to understand Ted Bundy. And that Dude will get inside your head big time. Or John Wayne Gacy.

I still think SimSam is some type of Doppelganger. DoppelSammer or Sammelganger if you will. So there's no use in trying to understand a dupe or clone of the original.

The original we all know and love. This version is a pale copy of the original. We may never be able to care about and love this version. And you know what? That's ok. WTH should we be expected to settle for SamLite anyway?
This is why I believe the writers and Show have something really good in store for us.

Besides, think of how many H/C fans they'd be robbing of caring for the resouled Devastated/Sam?
There's a Goldmine of angst and H/C to be mined and used there.And not just for Sammy either. Both brothers will have a lot of H/C and angst to deal with when Sammy gets his soul back.Right now there's all kinds of feel good fan fiction about SimSam getting his soul back that I'm not reading. I'm waiting for the juicy meaty angst of the aftershocks of when that happens. I want to see the drooling veggy Sam trying to deal with what happened to him in the pit and claiming responsibility of his actions before and after being in the pit.
Not to mention the angst we'll get to experience via Dean wanting to help his brother heal and yet deal with his own issues of losing Ben and Lisa.
There's just so much rich material here to deal with. Any of you ficcers reading this, get frikkin' busy.
LOL *smirk*
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impala1967
Dec. 4th, 2010 08:46 am (UTC)
This is the first episode in weeks that I have enjoyed. Crowley and Christian are gone. Grandpa Campbell is out of the picture so to speak. Sleep well gramps :D
Dean got his mojo back , although I was worried at the start, and Cas .... well Cas was damned AWESOME. I am loving him more and more. And I loved the way he stood up to Sam even though he's so much shorter :))) And pizza guy hehehe
Still wondering if Soul less Sam is the big bad cause if he doesn't get it back next week I don't think he'll get it back til the end. And we know what he's trying to do next week.
gaelicspirit
Dec. 5th, 2010 07:58 pm (UTC)
YAY! I'm happy you enjoyed it. You are very clear in what you look for in the show and in the characters and I'm pleased you got a little of what you were looking for with this one. :)

I do feel bad about not 'getting' Sam. I don't want it to come across that my confusion about his actions/choices is 'okay'...y'know?

Still wondering if Soul less Sam is the big bad cause if he doesn't get it back next week I don't think he'll get it back til the end. And we know what he's trying to do next week.

I wonder about that, too. I mean, they've killed off Crowley and Christian. Gramps could be the big bad, which would be both interesting and suck on different levels. Meg's still alive (much to my chagrin). And there are the Alpha's.... I wonder who The Big Bad is really going to be -- or if there will be any.

But what do you mean by "we know what he's trying to do next week"? What's he trying to do? Wait! I changed my mind. Don't tell me. I'll watch and see. LOL!

PS
Just thought of something...do you think the Alpha Vamp was in Monster GITMO? He was a cool bad guy and got hauled away from Gramps' interrigation by Crowley's demons. So, if he WAS there, I'm guessing...Cas 86'd him?

Hmmm...

See you next week?
(Anonymous)
Dec. 4th, 2010 09:06 am (UTC)
Hey A - Thanks for the thoroughly enjoyable review.

I'm having a hard time wrapping my arms around this season. My favorite episode so far is the one about the fairies, because it didn't have any demons in it, and it was funny. And I don't usually go for funny. You know me. I'm kinda dark.

I felt like you on the porn scenes and the Meg torture scenes. Those scenes were so unnecessary. AND, they took me out of the intensity I 'think' they were going for. I used to watch this show with the lights out, eyes half covered. But tonight we had the build-up of the hell hounds, the splattered blood, followed by the kiss between Cas and Meg, and Dean's (albeit lovely) expressions, and it took me completely out of the moment of suspense and fear. Not very good storytelling in my book. Also, Meg's leather bikini and knife rape, really? Seriously? Do you have to shove down our throats that this is a CW show? And since that's the case, then show us some gratuitous Dean skin every once in a while.

Same thing with Crowley making the Dick Cheney joke. I get it. I think Cheney should be tried sometime this century for war crimes, but how many jokes can the show make about him. Move on, Find someone new. Or better yet, further the story along.

I think Dean called Sam a replicate, had to rewind three times and I'm not positive. I think a replicate is a copy of something.

So, basically, I'm thoroughly disappointed so far this season. Sam's personality makes no sense. It's so inconsistent. I was tired of the demons and hell last season, and not pleased that halfway through this season we're still dealing with them, and with a Sam that's hard to love or feel for. I will continue to watch for Dean, because he is a tortured soul who JA has given so much life to that it's hard not to feel for him. But they're losing me a little every week. Tonight I actually checked my email while watching. Sacrilege, I know.

Thanks for the ramble.
(Anonymous)
Dec. 4th, 2010 09:11 am (UTC)
I always do something stupid when I respond to your ramble. The above is from E.
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msninacat
Dec. 4th, 2010 09:55 am (UTC)
The bottom line is, for me, the Sam I knew, the Sam I cared about, and the Sam I found reasons to love is gone. And he’s not coming back. He can’t, not the way they’ve set it up. Unless they actually pull God into the mix and wave a magic miracle wand to make it all better.

I'm right there with you on that. I want a good explanation not a magic fix. Also, this might be show's not so subtle way of telling the majority of fandom that things have changed and they are going to have to deal with it eventually. The boys will never be who they were in Season 1. Too much has happened. And I get that you don't want that, just the parts that made Sam, Sam back. Me too, bb.

Okay, so what I want to know is…did he really have those babies?? And if so, what happened to them?? I know they were monsters and all, but…they were babies. Even Dean couldn’t kill the shifter baby. When Cas 86’d the monsters at the end…were the babies included?? *bites lip

I'm pretty sure he did have them and that Cas did kill them. I think that may have been the reason Dean asked Cas about just going and doing it because there may have been things in there they could have helped dispose of but just didn't want to. Just my theory.

*Rugaru is the Metamorphosis monster. aka the thing that turns and starts eating people.

and making me miss Nikki Aycox Amen, all the second main incantations of the demons are like economy circumstances, except Alistair.

Okay, total aside…I wonder why she still goes by ‘Meg’? I mean, that was the name of the girl she possessed when we first met her—

I think it's just to keep from confusing us since they never gave us her "true" name. Plus maybe it's for the boys' benefit since that's how they think of her. Even after we knew Yellow Eyes' name was Azazel how many of us still called him Yellow Eyes?

Meg needs to die. I really hope she has a significant role coming up because, seriously? Why is she still alive?

This is why I was so excited when we got Crowley. Meg should have stayed dead. They really give us no reason for her coming back other than she was Azazel's daughter. So what? The boys didn't kill her with the knife or Colt? Again, so what? Couldn't the holy fire have worked and I didn't like her being back then either.

Dean’s expression is hilarious, and the moment is quirky and grin-worthy, but writing-wise, I wasn’t really sure of the point of it.

There was no point of Cas kissing Meg back. She was doing a shitty distraction so she could take his sword but his kiss had no purpose. The earlier scene with the porn was a lighter moment that I think they took a little too far but it didn't need to be continued. Can I share your brain bleach?

How does he figure that, I wonder? What event is he talking about, exactly? Dean was never in a position to save Mary, not once. He was either four years old, or prevented by angel interference.

Exactly. If he's talking about when Dean went back, he was trying to save Mary. I'm with you.

I just hope that in the second half of the season, our heroes are rewarded for their valiant struggle to find a way out of this mess.

And we’re rewarded for sticking with them through it all.


Amen. I'm very confused about how they are trying to make us see Meg as the better choice that lived since she wants Lucifer out of the cage again. IDK I'm bitter britches about Crowley and thank you for letting me have a place to grouse about it. This comment has taken me hours, thank you work interruptions, so I hope most of it is coherent.
gaelicspirit
Dec. 5th, 2010 08:31 pm (UTC)
The boys will never be who they were in Season 1. Too much has happened. And I get that you don't want that, just the parts that made Sam, Sam back.

Yes, exactly. I don't want to rewind to the beginning or anything. I mean, Dean's not the same guy he was, either. I don't want "old Sam" back -- I just want to be able to connect with him again.

I suppose you could look at it this way, too (or I could): the fact that I can't connect with Hollow Sam means that Jared's doing a great job conveying someone who is, essentially, empty.

I'm pretty sure he did have them and that Cas did kill them.

Y'know what else just occurred to me? What about the Alpha Vamp? He was a cool baddie. Creepy as all get out. And the last time we saw him, Crowley's demons were hauling him away -- one assumes to Monster GITMO. So, did Cas ice him as well? Hmmm...

Can I share your brain bleach?

*passes you the bottle* Use it sparingly. ;)

It was coherent. :) I think my biggest angst right now isn't solely Sam being soulless. I really have enjoyed this season. But for the first time, since I started watching (and I was there day 1, pilot episode) I am just confused and worried and finding myself having to have more hope that it'll all turn out "okay" then I've ever had to have before.

Y'know?

*takes breath*

See you next week?




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deangirl1
Dec. 4th, 2010 10:38 am (UTC)
I've only watched once, and you know I'm never good on just one, but here are my thoughts... such as they are...

The rugaru was the guy who suddenly had to eat meat and turned into a monster as soon as he ate human flesh... I met a guy whose company is Vuguru - and yes, I had to bite my tongue to keep from laughing...

Definitely an abandoned house...

Sam lying and threatening Cas? Dean will not be happy. In fact, I suspect his response would make the beating he gave Sam in You Can't Handle the Truth look like a tickle-fest... More on this later....

The two scenes between Gramps and Dean were Jensen masterpieces. His face tells such a story - and he's so damn beautiful doing it. It's always amazing to me to see the difference in his face between the show and stills - and it's because of the amazing vitality of his expression - just guh...

I didn't like the porn scene. It felt too over done - like bad teenage boy comedy. It was too heavy handed - they've gone to that well too often for me. BUT that said, it did make more sense later on in conjunction with the Meg scene and Cas's despair at the end of the episode - because that felt like despair to me... more later....

Meg is calling Cas Clarence- after the angel in It's a Wonderful Life, isn't she???

The Meg kissing scene was funny-ish, but again too heavy handed - it missed it's mark a bit - just slightly off kilter as I'm finding much of this season - having said that, I have a vested interest in the funny bits just now as I had a paper proposal on that very topic accepted for a conference in Orland in March - how SPN uses humour in juxtoposition of the horror to heighten and underscore it.

I definitely thought Gramps was going to spill more - I think there is more to the Mary story... I was also puzzled by the you chose Sam over Mary... when he was 4??? And again - Dean was stunning here - I did specifically notice that framing...

I thought Dean had a moment of panic at the guys in the shower because they were vamps and he'd just had that turning experience, but I was struck that we saw no teeth - that may be because the FX budget is shot to hell or maybe they were acutally rugarus - hence the one at the beginning?

I adore Crowley's haven't seen you all season!!! LOL!!!!

And the last scene??? I told you Dean respected his angel AND their friendship!!! I felt so, so bad for Cas - I think he would like to be able to run away from heaven and fall - I think that he is toying with all things human because of his despair/desperation over what is happening in Heaven. And so far, Dean has proven to be his most steadfast friend... I want to see much more of Cas from here on out - and I want more of Dean and Cas (damn the torpedos!)...

I am sure that Crowley killed the shifter babies before any of our heros had to do it...

I'm not happy with how they are setting up the comparison of Dean and Sam in hell. My hubby pointed out that Sam will have to live with what his body did while he was in hell the way Dean will have to deal with torturing in Hell - but I think it doesn't count, it isn't Sam without his soul, but hubby says yes it is - it's Sam's mind and essence... IDK... See? Even he tries to talk me off the ledge...

Next week promises to have much fallout.
gaelicspirit
Dec. 5th, 2010 08:42 pm (UTC)
The rugaru was the guy who suddenly had to eat meat and turned into a monster as soon as he ate human flesh...

Ohhhh, right right right. I could have looked it up, I suppose, but sometimes it's just easier to have you guys correct me then pause in the writing to look it up. :)

Definitely an abandoned house

Wonder how they got electricity? And...unless they also found cable or a VCR or something, how the heck was Cas watching porn? Not something you usually find on rabbit ear channels, y'know?

Sam lying and threatening Cas? Dean will not be happy. In fact, I suspect his response would make the beating he gave Sam in You Can't Handle the Truth look like a tickle-fest

Yeah, I'm anticipating some fall-out from that as well. At least, I kinda hope there would be. It would be lame for them to have Sam threaten Cas like that and then have nothing come of it. Bad fake-foreshadowing, y'know?

The two scenes between Gramps and Dean were Jensen masterpieces.

YES! So. Very. Much. Yes.

Meg is calling Cas Clarence- after the angel in It's a Wonderful Life, isn't she???

Apparently. LOL! I heard "Clarice" like from "Silence of the Lambs," but you and about 50 other people said it was Clarence, harkening back to what she called him the last time she saw him.

I stand corrected.

that may be because the FX budget is shot to hell or maybe they were acutally rugarus - hence the one at the beginning?

A couple of other people have said they were ghouls -- that Dean even said "I hate ghouls" (which I totally missed). So, there you go. ;)

I adore Crowley's haven't seen you all season!!! LOL!!!!

That was the best line! And it was organically funny, not shoe-horned in there for laughs like the porn scene(s).

I'm not happy with how they are setting up the comparison of Dean and Sam in hell.

Well, the way I spelled it out above is the way I can find myself getting clear of my personal disgruntlement to be okay with how it's handled -- but I don't know if they'll go that route. I think there is going to be comparison and our boy is going to come across as lacking in some way because he didn't suffer enough or wasn't tortured long enough or was "just on the rack" and not "trapped in the cage."

As if he had any choice, y'know?

Oh, well. I refuse to linger on it and am trying to not worry about where they're going until I see where they've been. I get the feeling that I'm only going to really get this season once it's all done.

And I'm usually much more savvy when it comes to TV and movies. Maybe I'm just to close to the subject matter or something, y'know?

Thank you for reading and for your comments. And good luck with this latest paper!!





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primrose_1
Dec. 4th, 2010 01:12 pm (UTC)
I was really surprised by this episode. They've spent the whole season building up this whole scenario- grandpa and Sam are back because Crowley wants them to help capture monsters so that he can find Purgatory. Suddenly, bam, that plot is over. No more location of Purgatory, no more monsters captured, no building family bonds, all done. It's almost like the main plot of the book being resolved before you're a third of the way done with it. Yes, there is still the war in heaven, and Sam's soul, but this abrupt ending took me by surprise.

That didn't stop it from being COOL, mind you..... :)
gaelicspirit
Dec. 5th, 2010 08:45 pm (UTC)
It's almost like the main plot of the book being resolved before you're a third of the way done with it.

Which makes me wonder if I was all wrong about what the plot was supposed to be. Which is intriguing...and also a little frustrating. Like...what have I been investing in (beyond what's happening with Dean, I mean)?

I said to someone else above, I really have enjoyed this season. But for the first time, since I started watching (and I was there day 1, pilot episode) I am just confused and worried and finding myself having to have more hope that it'll all turn out "okay" then I've ever had to have before.

Thank you for reading and taking time to comment. I was thinking about you and what you've been going through. I hope this weekend was a bit better. *hugs*


qultng1
Dec. 4th, 2010 02:56 pm (UTC)
What I heard when Meg and Castiel first got together was her calling him Clarence. I thought it was a nod to "It's a Wonderful Life". But, who knows? Personally, I'm having a hard time keeping up this season.

Oh, and I did cackle at the "I haven't seen you all season" comment. Cute.

This episode left my head spinning. It's so hard to keep up with the plan when there sometimes doesn't really seem to be one. Gotta believe there is a grand plan, tho. It's got to ultimately make sense. Otherwise, they're just leading us around by our nose rings and that's not right.

The tradition is to leave us with a cliffie at the holiday break, but we were told they'd leave us with some hope. Don't know. I'm tired, tho. Getting very tired. :(

As usual, I'm right there with you. Thanks again for writing these; you really help me think things through. :)
gaelicspirit
Dec. 5th, 2010 08:48 pm (UTC)
What I heard when Meg and Castiel first got together was her calling him Clarence. I thought it was a nod to "It's a Wonderful Life".

You're right. Several people have corrected me. :) I heard "Clarice" -- like from Silence of the Lambs, but then I was reminded that she called him Clarence previously. I blame her accent. Heh.

It's so hard to keep up with the plan when there sometimes doesn't really seem to be one.

I agree. And I said to someone else that I really have enjoyed this season. But for the first time, since I started watching (and I was there day 1, pilot episode) I am just confused and worried and finding myself having to have more hope that it'll all turn out "okay" then I've ever had to have before.

But maybe that's where they want us to be at this point so that they can blow us away with the awesomeness to come. :)

Thank you for reading these! You make writing them totally worth it.

*hugs*

See you next week.
pickamix
Dec. 4th, 2010 03:01 pm (UTC)
I think the porn and kissing Meg bit were way out of place and I don't have to see them to say so. I hated the whore house scene as well. Anything that takes Cas away from being stoic feels wrong to me. I don't like him played for comic relief.

Other than that I probably will watch this ep at some point... I like Meg... though I miss her as N.A. (what is it with this show and that blondes being the better demons?)

Hey you mentioned me and my story... *blushes* ... no they don't line up but I can see where you would think about it.

Well... I'll see you next week.
gaelicspirit
Dec. 5th, 2010 08:50 pm (UTC)
The porn scenes felt awkward to me in light of what was going on around them -- not because of the porn itself. Take out of the whole overarching situation, they were funny. But shoe-horned in there I was like, uhhhh...wha? I would never have written it that way, I guess. *shrug*

And the moment Meg tossed that sassy line back at Dean, I thought of you. :)

See you next week!
(Deleted comment)
gaelicspirit
Dec. 4th, 2010 03:26 pm (UTC)
Wow -- your Freud explanations are really profound -- and I'm going to read them a few more times to get them to sink in because I think you might have helped me "get" this inconsistency I've been feeling with Sam's character.

Especially the part about Sam not dreaming because he doesn't need to sleep.

So, he has his Id, but his Ego is missing and that's where my disconnect is triggered because in my mind I'm thinking he should be feeling NOTHING, but that's not the case because he feels the basic needs like lust, anger, and a level of contentment.

Yikes. We need a handbook. Or! Even better? Someone should explain that to DEAN so we can make the connection through his eyes as to why Sam is how he is. That would go a long way helping me. :)

As have you! Thank you for this! :)

And thanks for reading. It's rewarding when I stay up to the wee hours of the morn to finish it. *laugh*

See you soon!
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(no subject) - gaelicspirit - Dec. 4th, 2010 04:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
quill_lumos
Dec. 4th, 2010 03:57 pm (UTC)
I love your passionate reviews, I look forward to reading them each week, though I usually don't comment because I don't usually have anything to say that hasn't already been said. But I have been wondering about Sam for a few weeks and the fact that everyone seems to find him so inconsistant, whereas I think that the writers are being consistant with him, but in order to make sense of what they are doing I think that we need to look at psychology, specifically Freud.

This year the writers seem to me to be using Freud as a starting point for souless Sam. According to Freud we are all made up of Id, Ego and Superego. Id is the part of us that is totally subconcious, it is our base emotions (or *needs* might be a better word), lust, anger, and even a sort of happiness or pleasure. These emotions are animalistic, base, but they are emotions. Much of what the Id does it to seek satisfaction for its needs, it is biologically driven. Ego is construct that develops as we grow. It is partly conscious and partly unconcious, it enables us to think, to reason but it is totally selfish. Super Ego also develops as we grow, it is our concience, our empathy, the part of us that allows us to understand others, to feel for others, to love.

Super Ego communicates with Ego and Id via our dreams and keeps them in check, surpresses the base emotions of Id and tempers the selfishness of Ego, but in Supernatural Sam doesn't need to sleep because he has no Super Ego, no soul, no need for dreams.

Sam does feel, he feels base emotions, emotions that are directly relevent to him, but he can't empathise he can't love and he can only care about anyone in as much as they are useful to him.

That's a very simplistic explanation, but it does seem to fit, especially this week when Cas talks to Dean about the pyschological damage that Sam will suffer if he gets his soul (or Super Ego back).

I wonder if next week's episode is going to end with Sam's soul being restored, leaving us with a massive cliffhanger as to whether it will be a good thing or not.

Whatever happens I am enjoying both the brothers so far and I think that the writers have unfolded the story very well, there have been little hints and clues, that we only pick up after we find out certain things. It's not been perfect, there are some aspects that have been very 'handwavery' but on the whole I think that they have done very well. I'm enjoying the dark humour, the noir aspect. But my heart does ache at times,for Dean, and Sam and their relationship, I do want Sam back but I must say that I am very much watching the show and how they are dealing with the whole storyline and the time they are taking to do it justice.

Thanks once again for your excellent post. (edited and reposted because LJ posted the last comment before I'd finished writing it!)

Lucie
gaelicspirit
Dec. 4th, 2010 04:05 pm (UTC)
Okay, I posted this reply to your first comment that LJ ate, and I wanted to make sure you saw it! :)

Wow -- your Freud explanations are really profound -- and I'm going to read them a few more times to get them to sink in because I think you might have helped me "get" this inconsistency I've been feeling with Sam's character.

Especially the part about Sam not dreaming because he doesn't need to sleep.

So, he has his Id, but his Ego is missing and that's where my disconnect is triggered because in my mind I'm thinking he should be feeling NOTHING, but that's not the case because he feels the basic needs like lust, anger, and a level of contentment.

Yikes. We need a handbook. Or! Even better? Someone should explain that to DEAN so we can make the connection through his eyes as to why Sam is how he is. That would go a long way helping me. :)

As have you! Thank you for this! :)

And thanks for reading. It's rewarding when I stay up to the wee hours of the morn to finish it. *laugh*

See you soon!
(no subject) - amber1960 - Dec. 4th, 2010 05:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
amber1960
Dec. 4th, 2010 05:22 pm (UTC)
Oh dear I think this is going to be rather a long comment, sorry!

“Cas had to have known the minute he told them that the reason for Sam’s behavior was that his soul was missing they would seek out a way to get it back. He couldn’t have mentioned before that it wasn’t such a good idea?”

Not only weird but I am not sold on this whole concept – I mean why would Cas say that he wants *Sam* to survive – how can Sam be Sam without his soul?? I just don’t see that a person can be who they should be without a soul, if you believe in the concept of a soul at all.

“Dean: Then you figure it out, Cas. The guy’s a [field relic? I didn’t catch it].”
Freaking replicant was what I thought he’d said (possibly Bladerunner reference?)

“And if I might have a shallow moment? Dean’s face framed in that cell window, with his jaw pulled tight and his eyes lit up with righteous fury looked four kinds of gorgeous.”
Hell yeah!! And in almost every single deep shadowed close up they offered us this episode (well, this season actually!)

“I didn’t think super healing was a by product of being soulless. *wink*”
Yeah well this was the 2nd moment like that in this epi – the first being both boys being smashed over the head pretty damn hard and waking up without a bruise and perfectly compos mentis – not even a slight grimace to say ouch that hurt…. :D
Mind you, soulless Sam has been seen doing some strangely unhuman feats that have still not been explained (like the way he seemed to sense that vamp in the dark in Live Free…)

Re: Crowley “Honestly? I can’t believe he’s gone. It was so fast. I can’t believe I’m going to say this, but I’m going to miss him.”
Me neither – both major demon deaths in this epi seemed very casual and rushed and – well – wasted. Crowley was such a great villain and I can’t see why they’ve got rid of him yet kept Meg around….
And on where do demons go when they die – I always assumed that when a demon was killed with either the colt or the demon-killing knife that that was it. They were gone, wiped out of existence, soul and all.

So Sam walked away from Dean at the end and what does that mean for their relationship? It seemed strange after the way Sam had run to save Dean from those 2 whatever-they-weres, doesn’t it? I am still confused by the mixed signals Sam is giving – so gawd knows how Dean feels.

I had so many questions buzzing round in my head after this one, I am very concerned about how the hell they are going to turn this around and wonder if we are going to have Soulless Sam for the rest of the season now… Maybe they are looking to Season 7 as the season of the return of the soul???!!

Oh and the Cas porn scene – yeah I absolutely think they only had that in to try for a light moment – but these writers don’t have Ben Edlunds talent for mixing the light with the dark so it felt a bit clumsy/obvious – while I admit, still being funny. And it was way better that that bledding whoopee cushion which I never thought was even vaguely funny) But I have low standards…
gaelicspirit
Dec. 5th, 2010 08:59 pm (UTC)
I love long comments. They make writing the long rambles very rewarding. :)

I mean why would Cas say that he wants *Sam* to survive – how can Sam be Sam without his soul??

Very good point! I wonder what he meant by that -- and where they're going with that line of thinking. Another thing...if there's no way to heal the damage to Sam's soul, and if putting the damaged soul back in Sam would, essentially, destroy Sam...wouldn't they want to maybe try to end the soul's torment? I mean...I'm just thinking out loud, but if we're meant to go along with Cas' claims that Sam's soul is suffering horribly...so much so that they can't give it back to him without horrible things happening, I wonder if there's a way to...basically kill Sam's soul so that it's pain is over.

Or...would that also kill Sam as well? Y'know? Like maybe they're still connected somehow.... *has to ponder some more*

Replicant! Blade Runner! Yes! You are right -- I totally couldn't hear him. :)

And on where do demons go when they die – I always assumed that when a demon was killed with either the colt or the demon-killing knife that that was it. They were gone, wiped out of existence, soul and all.

Y'know, I wasn't sure. I mean, that's totally possible. But I wondered since they brought up Purgatory if they'd send him there. Guess...we'll have to wait and see. Again.

I am very concerned about how the hell they are going to turn this around and wonder if we are going to have Soulless Sam for the rest of the season now

I don't know...maybe we'll be pleasantly (so to speak) surprised. Maybe something will change. Maybe we won't go into the hiatus with all these questions and feeling this disconnected ache.

Or maybe we will. For the first time since I started watching I am just confused and worried and finding myself having to have more hope that it'll all turn out "okay" then I've ever had to have before.

Ah, well. It's all good. :)

Thank you for reading and taking time to comment.

See you next week?


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mtee
Dec. 4th, 2010 06:35 pm (UTC)
I actually didn't have many thoughts on this ep. It was good, it was depressing. Maybe it's my own hormonal mood, but I only had one reaction. It's shallow and I hate when many fans whine about it.. but when they were talking about Sam's soul and all it's been going through.. I was ticked off.

I had this gut reaction (remember.. hormonal!!!)... "sure, give us a couple end of episode scenes of Dean's torment and trauma from being in Hell, but Sam's going to come back all damaged and poor poor Sam. Dean will be thinking how poor Sam's soul is going through so much trauma right now".

Told you.. hormonal. This makes no sense and I usually pride myself on not playing one brother gets more attention than another card. I hate that. But for the first time I resented that Sam may get more h/c time. I want Dean to crack.. I've always wanted him to crack so it's Sam who has to be strong and take care of him, to bring him back from the brink.

For once I resent that Dean is written as the one who manages to stay fighting, who tucks it all in, who shoulders everything, while Sam has been able to lament his demon blood etc. I wanted and was denied my PTSD Dean...

I think I need to just take a Midol and deal.
I worry that this could be the last season and we will have been denied some good brother time. We DESERVE after all this angst to have at least a few eps of our boys together.. WHOLE. I fear we will be given a long lead up and then a quick reunion type tag scene.... THE END.

I think I need some chocolate to get me back on some kind of even emotional keel.
novembersguest
Dec. 5th, 2010 05:53 am (UTC)
If it helps at all, I don't think you're being hormonal--I feel the same way ;).
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seesmooshrun
Dec. 4th, 2010 07:05 pm (UTC)
Wow. Just... wow. Consider this saved to Memories. You are awesome and I bow to your mastery in Rambling.

Couple things: Dean called Sam a "replicant". And I think the guys in the shower were ghouls, not vamps. They wanted to EAT him. And Dean's garbled comment sounded like "freakin' A... GHOULS!"
gaelicspirit
Dec. 5th, 2010 09:25 pm (UTC)
Awww...thanks, man. You got me feeling all squishy and happy. This rambled ended up being 20 pages long in Word and took me to 2am to get it all done. LOL! So, yeah that you enjoyed it!

Replicant! That makes total sense now. I swear I could NOT understand him for the life of me.

And thanks for the ghouls clarification. Totally helps explain the no teeth business. :)

Thank you for reading and taking time to comment!

See you soon!
chiiyo86
Dec. 4th, 2010 09:28 pm (UTC)
Hey! It's been a while. I'm happy to have a little more time to read your rambles, they made the episode clearer for me especially since there were people distracting me during the episode yesterday!

Your take on Sam is very pessismistic. :( I'm more optimistic than you are, I don't think he will be the exact same Sam (but then Dean isn't the same either), but I don't think we'll never get a Sam we can recongnize as Sam back. But I have no idea how they're going to do that!

Oh! Just thought of something…would Crowley have gone back to Hell since he’s dead? Or…is he in Purgatory? Wouldn’t that be ironic? But I guess now the guys are no longer beholden to a demon…. They still have baddies running amuck, but in a way, they kinda…lost their compass. They’re not missionless, but they no longer have clear orders to accomplish the mission.

I think he's in Purgatory, because they always made a difference between exorcising demons (sending them back to Hell) and killing them, and Purgatory is apparently where all the monsters go. This is ironic, indeed (but maybe they're going somewhere with that??) As for the demons, I guess they went back to the pre-Azazel period, when they had no leader.
gaelicspirit
Dec. 5th, 2010 10:06 pm (UTC)
Your take on Sam is very pessismistic. :( I'm more optimistic than you are, I don't think he will be the exact same Sam (but then Dean isn't the same either), but I don't think we'll never get a Sam we can recongnize as Sam back.

I'm sorry. :( I don't want to be pessimistic. In fact, I usually pride myself on finding the sunny side to everything -- even the heartbreak captured in this story overall. And I want to be clear that I don't want the exact same Sam -- your point that Dean isn't the same either is well taken.

I don't want the same Sam; I want a Sam I can connect with. That I can recognize. Like I did before. I want the human Sam -- changed by circumstance, certainly, but one that's at least relatable for me. I don't recognize this one, and I'm not sure that with the way they set it up -- with his soul being so damaged the putting it back in could destroy it and him -- that I'm going to get a character back that I recognize.

Does that make sense? I know it's no less pessimistic, but I just wanted to make sure I clarified that I get that circumstance will render him changed -- I don't expect to see S1 Sam or anything, y'know?

That Purgatory thing is indeed interesting and I wonder if they're going to play on that -- the demon looking for Purgatory ending up there. I guess we'll have to wait and see! :)

Thank you for reading and taking time to comment.

See you soon!
marlowe78
Dec. 4th, 2010 09:33 pm (UTC)
This episode hurt me in ways I thought not possible anymore.

I truly ended it with a long, kinda loud "noooooooooo!" and a "What the Fuck!" (yes, I was speaking English. I can't slip out if it easily on Saturdays)

marlowe78
Dec. 4th, 2010 09:38 pm (UTC)
Your thoughts about Sam and Dean:

Sam:

I am, like you, confused. Because I thought I spotted hints at him feeling something today, and not when someone was watching, so there was no need to pretend. When he was in the room next to Dean's, and Dean was taken away - wasn't he worried? He seemed worried. And he went and looked for him, RIGHT AWAY. Didn't run and tried to find Crowley (may he rest in pieces) or Meg or anyone else - he went to find DEAN.

And calling it frantic might be too much, but it certainly wasn't without caring.

I think - and I might be completely wrong - that the Sam we knew is really gone. Like you said, there is probably too much damage. The only thing they could do, if that's the case, would be to release his spirit, lay it to rest (no clue how, though) because anything else - well. Would be cruel. And I don't think Dean could be that cruel.

And one other thing - more importantly, maybe.

I think Sam-bot is developing into his own person. He's developing his own mind, his own thoughts and memories and - I think - his own emotions.
He's not caring yet - but he might learn to do it.

And - I think there was a movie like it, or a book? - what right do we have to kill Sam-bot in order to restore Sam? Hasn't got Sam-bot the same rights to be alive that Sam has - or in that case, had?

Sam gave his life and soul! He gave it freely, he made that sacrifice at least being prepared for suffering. Sure, you cannot be prepared for Hell, or for The Cage, but he was as prepared as he could be.

He's made his peace that day, and he took the jump. And it hurt Dean, broke his heart all over again.

And now, Sam-thing is back. Not Sam. But something close. And maybe, maybe that thing has a right to be alive, a right for his own kind of live, just like Sam did. Maybe even more, since it was the SOUL who decided, and now that soul is gone, left is only the shell.

If this shell now fills itself, is there a possibility for creating a new soul? A different being?
Someone who can be taught. Not emotions, because you can't teach those. Or can you? Because... how much are emotions influenced by your culture.

Does a person from an African tribe feel for a slaughtered animal as much as Westerners do (if they do)? Isn't it a huge difference between a culture that has always cut the artery and let the animal bleed out and someone doing it because they think it's fun, or cool?
If you never knew that animals suffer, would you feel sorry for them?

tbc
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(Anonymous)
Dec. 4th, 2010 09:35 pm (UTC)
It's Pinkchick
Hey, Gaelic! *waves*

I haven't been around in awhile. Real life got busy.

Wonderful and thought provoking ramble! I only have a couple things to say this week as my thoughts are still jumbled and mind on overload from trying to sort out everything.

One: The comment Gramps Soup told Dean about choosing Sam over Mary, he probably meant the conversation they'd had earlier, when Gramps Soup said he didn't know what Sam was and how Dean was choosing RoboSam over bringing back his own mother. At least, that's what I thought it meant. And while I understand the reason behind him working for Crowley, my question is if he ever did get Mary back (unlikely now that the King of Hell is dead) what would he tell her? "Hey, I sold out your sons to a demon and left them to die." That would make a great coming back from the dead conversation!

Two: I have a theory, more of a thought, really. And I know TPTB are probably gonna do their own thing, but what if (and this is a big IF) Sam's soul wasn't still in the cage with Lucifer and Michael. But, what if Death has it? Just a thought. I mean, Sam did give himself up to save the world and in essence, reinstate Death's freedom. Of course, I don't know why he would have it, but that would solve the Sam's soul not coming back whole issue.

And RoboSam is a bit inconsistent at times. However, in this episode I chalked it up to him deducing that he needed Dean in this whole soul searching thing and didn't, logically, want him to die. Kinda like, well, I don't really care about him, but I need him thing. *shrugs*

Can I also say that everyone was really badass in this episode. I didn't really feel sorry for Meg, and I hope they finally kill her off this season, something a la Ruby. Crowley is dead. I liked him as a villian, too. Maybe it was the sarcasm. He will be missed.

Hope to see you next week, where I hope they don't leave us with a killer cliff hanger for the hiatus.

Take care!
gaelicspirit
Dec. 5th, 2010 11:13 pm (UTC)
Re: It's Pinkchick
Hi you! Good for you, having a nicely busy RL. :) As long as it IS nicely busy and not Chaos. As mine seems to be more often than not. LOL!

he probably meant the conversation they'd had earlier, when Gramps Soup said he didn't know what Sam was and how Dean was choosing RoboSam over bringing back his own mother

Maybe. But I still don't see how he can justify what he said, really. Because Dean's never been in a position to bring his mom back. The only deal he made was right after he lost Sam. His 'one job.' Why in the world would he have thought to bring his mom back? If he thought about his mom, why not his dad?? Y'know? And when he went back in time, angels stopped him from doing anything. I think Gramps is on crack, that's what I think.

But, what if Death has it?

Oohhhh -- now THAT'S a thought. One I totally hadn't considered. *will ponder*

Hope to see you next week, too! It will be heart-wrenching, no matter what they do. This whole darn season has been so far!!

Later, gator.
jesters_tear82
Dec. 4th, 2010 09:35 pm (UTC)
Gaelic answering comments on a Saturday? What's up with that? ;-) Did you get a good night's sleep after returning home? You deserve it (I suspect you stayed up late tonight :)

The episode this week was good - for me - in terms of advancing the plot, BUT I thought the writers were trying way too hard to make us laugh or at least shock us with the mass of "bitch" and sexual innuendoes. The most unreliable bit was Cas calling Meg an abomination and then after a kiss from her - his angel tongue's all in her mouth - yucks. I mean the guy hates demons! Yes I'm sure he wants to explore but not with her :P The only line that was funny was Crowley's not seeing Cas all season, that got a giggle outa me :) maybe that's just me but I enjoy comedy that's genuine and this felt forced.

Did you too suspect Mary was Grandpa's reason for working with Crowley? I wrote it here a few weeks ago. I get you on feeling symphathy for him, as far as he's concerned he died in 73' (When Mary was alive) & suddenly brought back in 2010 and his little girl is gone, that can make a man lose himself.. But him selling his gransons twice is so wrong!! & Hello gramps but your girl wouldn't want you turning against her sons!!
His saying to Dean that he chose Mary over Sam, like I told you before Sam to Dean is in a way his child, besides Mary has been dead for almost 30 years, and as far as we know is in no pain, unlike Sam's soul who's undergoing turture.
I took him as talking about right now, when put in the position to either choose to bring back Mary or save Sam Dean chose Sam, not about actions from years ago. What do you think?

- Crowley is officially dead! You know when Meg jumped him I was so sure he would run away, but this? took me by total surprise. I'll miss the scottish lad :) I have 2 questions though:
1. If Cas could get the bones for them why not ask him before submitting to Crowley's evil ways? The only thing that makes sense was that they tried calling him but he was too busy upstairs to heed their call?
2. What's coming up next? Is gramps gonna be so mad at Dean for spoiling his plans he'll try to get revenge? Does this mean no more Alphas? & what's with the angel wars? So many questions! We'll have a month % a half to ponder as I just read the show is coming back on the 27th of January.

Ohhh and Sam - I don't like him at all right now, that said I think he didn't want his soul back even before he knew what could happen to him (don't ask me why). Dude, when he was all bloody teeth it was like "The Rapture" all over again, I was creeped out! I don't want to make comparisons between the guys's sufferings, but I do think they make a point of it that Dean was in hell less time after all and that Sam was abused by Lucifer who is after all - Satan. So it's not to diminish from Dean's experience (which was no doubt horrible) as much as to show us that Sam's soul will most likely be "off", maybe even effect his body in such a way that will kill him/paralize him or the likes. He was also possessed by an angel which usually leaves the people in a vegetable state, right? Please don't see it as me going against Dean - you know he's my boy ;-) This is me trying to be as objective as possible. I see everyone here talking about it and I really don't compare, each brother needs to heal from his own emotional wounds, Sam's apparently (so Cas thinks) will affect him in a more physical way.
& I want Sam's soul back!! Want? Need! The possibility of him remaining like this didn't cross my mind :(

Loved your ramble & is angsting along with you!
Until next time.
gaelicspirit
Dec. 5th, 2010 11:20 pm (UTC)
Haha -- well, I started replying on Saturday because my girl gave me a tiny break while she played a game with her Papa. But...that ended rather quickly, so I only got a little bit through the comments. However, it IS before Monday! So yay! :)

Yeah, I'd figured it would have to be Mary -- not Deanna. Mainly because while it would make sense he'd want his wife back, Deanna was too removed from the boys to be impactful. Wanting Mary back (writing-wise) made more sense because it would mess Dean up big time, y'know?

like I told you before Sam to Dean is in a way his child, besides Mary has been dead for almost 30 years, and as far as we know is in no pain, unlike Sam's soul who's undergoing turture

Yeah, I totally agree. Sam has often times been in the role of kid to Dean's caretaker. He's not doing anything different than Gramps, really.

I don't want to make comparisons between the guys's sufferings, but I do think they make a point of it that Dean was in hell less time after all and that Sam was abused by Lucifer who is after all - Satan. So it's not to diminish from Dean's experience (which was no doubt horrible) as much as to show us that Sam's soul will most likely be "off", maybe even effect his body in such a way that will kill him/paralize him or the likes. He was also possessed by an angel which usually leaves the people in a vegetable state, right? Please don't see it as me going against Dean - you know he's my boy ;-) This is me trying to be as objective as possible.

Yeah, I hear you. That's exactly what I was trying to do in the ramble -- find my way through the inevitable comparison to a way that I could deal with it. Because I think that somehow, when compared, Dean will somehow come out of it all "lacking" because his tour in Hell wasn't as long and he was "just on the rack" rather than "trapped in the cage"...I still contend that pain is pain and Hell is Hell, but...I don't think I'm going to win this one.

*sighs*

Well, regardless of what happens comparison wise, Dean is a gosh darn Hero with a Capital 'H' for going to Hell to save his brother and knowingly resisting through torture before breaking and then coming back and valiantly re-inserting himself into life to continue to fight the good fight, even though the memories haunt him to this day. And I'm sticking to it.

I hope they return Sam's soul. And I hope his soul is healed enough that it doesn't destroy him.

*hopes hopes hopes*

See you next time!

Edited at 2010-12-05 11:20 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - jesters_tear82 - Dec. 6th, 2010 08:57 am (UTC) - Expand
(Anonymous)
Dec. 5th, 2010 02:19 am (UTC)
hey gaelic-it's meggin
Thank you for your well thought out Ramble. I was worried about how this episode might hit you since it was such a roller coaster ride for me. I mean Crowley's Dead!!!- friggin King of hell gone in sixty seconds! And I love that you jumped on the big question of who's gonna fill his shoes?

He was all about creating a new world order in Hell that somehow involved Alphas and expansion into Purgatory-big plans. But I'm thinking that now that he's gone the Lucifer followers are going to snag the throne and start pulling to free their guy from the pit...again. Same game plan as Raphael and didn't we dance this dance last year with Zachariah and Michael and Ruby and Lilith?

(Hell no lets not go there again!)

So do you figure Hell's now got a queen? Queen Meg perhaps? or whatev her real name is. I was scatchin my head on the continued use of "meg" too-hehe. I guess it's got a ring to it-huh?

Anyway I loved DecisiveSam in this episode, he was bad ass and powerful and took no prisoners. But stonecold and scary-not a lick respect of Cas- I get the whole 'you owe me' thing too- but the threat?? What's up with that?

I didn't feel comfortable with the whole porn scene at all it seemed too random- didn't like Dean mentioning that Cas had a 'boner' that was ...too much information. And wasn't really necessary as a set up for the Meg kissing scene later- just gratuitous skank. But what I did find funny is that Dean, of all people, has suddenly be thrust into the role of Ms. Manners for both Sam and Cas by having to give the proper porn watching etiquette amongst dudes speech (LOL)

I feel the same way as you do about this season's Sam. I watch him interact with all those around him and the lack of any feeling I have for the guy is held in check by my remembrance that he was someone I used to care about- so kudos to the writers for reducing us down to that only tolerant level of relating to this character. Job well done- now can we build this man back up to the multi layered tower of morality and empathy that Dean used to be able to count on to be HIS moral compass -already!!!

And you hit the crux of the tragedy that both Dean and Sam share right now. Dean is barely holding it together because he wants his brother back sooo bad and Sam can clearly see that his options of surviving the soul transfer are not good. If we are the sum total of all our memories than Sam is going to be a wreck. All the guilt of what he'd done in the past year as the amoral replicant plus all the damage he suffered as Lucifer's chew toy will make him a basket case...if he survives.

Back on Fanfic one of the forums posters mentioned that IF Mary got brought back and was given the option to help heal Sam she would do anything to do that. And I got this image in my head of her sitting with a broken and unconscious Sam draped across her lap like Michangelos Pieta. I figure if anyone could implore a favor from God to help heal her son Mary Winchester could because her family has given enough.

Thanks for you passion for these characters and for your keen insight to their delemahs that I can only crudely form in my head, you help me clear the haze and it brings out all the colors and nuances nicely-hehe-(((gaelic)))hugs
gaelicspirit
Dec. 5th, 2010 11:25 pm (UTC)
Re: hey gaelic-it's meggin
I am definitely curious about what's going to happen in Hell now that Crowley's gone. And I'm also curious as to where Crowley went. Is he truly just...gone? Or...did he go back to Hell...or...is he in Purgatory?? *shrug*

Hopefully, since the writers are the ones to create that new level -- meaning Purgatory -- we'll get some kind of answer.

Job well done- now can we build this man back up to the multi layered tower of morality and empathy that Dean used to be able to count on to be HIS moral compass -already

WORD!!! Haha -- talk about role reversal! :) I virtually applaud this sentence.

And I got this image in my head of her sitting with a broken and unconscious Sam draped across her lap like Michangelos Pieta. I figure if anyone could implore a favor from God to help heal her son Mary Winchester could because her family has given enough.

This might not be off the mark, really...I mean, she already feels 'guilt' about the part she played in his demonic destiny and not being able to protect him from it...and if Gramps is going to bring her back (or try to) after screwing over her sons...well, I can tell you as a mama, no matter what my dad did for me, I'd judge him by why he did for my kid -- and I could see this being a plausible possibility.

Thanks for you passion for these characters and for your keen insight to their delemahs that I can only crudely form in my head, you help me clear the haze and it brings out all the colors and nuances nicely

Thank YOU for saying this and for seeing my passion. For saying this despite the fact that I said I'm confused by this season's Sam and begging for hope that they're going to make it okay. I honestly can't tell you how much I appreciate this. I really do care about this show, these characters...and this ramble is my testiment to that.

*hugs you*
kimmer1227
Dec. 5th, 2010 02:47 am (UTC)
I'm not sure what to make of Sam's threat to Cas. But then again, I'm not sure what to make of Sam in general. Sadly, he's becoming someone I care about only because Dean cares about him. I'm sure that will change, but it still makes me sad. Oh, Sammy.

Thanks for your insights and rambles.
gaelicspirit
Dec. 5th, 2010 11:27 pm (UTC)
I agree -- Sam has become someone I care about because of Dean.

I hope you're right. I really really REALLY do. I hope it changes over the course of the next 12 episodes. Because I miss the Sam that I could relate to -- despite the fact that he wasn't my hero.

Y'know?

Thank YOU for reading and taking time to comment. I mean it sincerely. :)
bagginsdvm
Dec. 5th, 2010 03:19 am (UTC)
Wow, Crowley is gone! I did not see that coming so soon! I expected him to be the big bad all season. I will miss him with all his snark & style. So who will be King of Hell now? And will Purgatory still come into play? I suppose that is where Crowley actually ended up; rather ironic, I suppose.

I shed a tear when Gramps explained why he was working for Crowley, although it came as no surprise. It had to be Mary or Deanna or both. Yeah, Gramps proved that he is a lying liar who lies! How could he possibly think that, knowing how much his own child meant to him, that Mary would not be just as fiercely devoted to her own children. Did he think that he would just never tell her what he did to get her back, that she would never ask where her sons were? How could he stand there & watch as those demons drug Dean off to be eaten by ghouls?!! Dean was justified to be so angry, especially after he kept Sam from killing Gramps earlier this season.

I was glad to see Dean take out Christian, but that was too quick as well. I agree that Meg had better have a role to play that makes it worthwhile in the end to keep her in play for this long.

I've given up trying to figure out Soulless Sam. He really seemed concerned for Dean this week & certainly rushed to save him this time. Maybe he learning to feel somewhat over time. I don't think he was faking his concern for Dean's safety. With what he's overheard, I don't blame him for not wanting his soul back. He's a Winchester, though. He's got to be human, & that means having a soul. He's got to get it back at some point, & he knows now that Dean will do whatever it takes to help him through the "recovery" period.

I think Cas stayed to help not because Sam threatened him (although that was awfully creepy) but because he does care about the guys & does see them as friends. I loved seeing Dean's offer of help & acknowledgment of what Cas had done.

The guys were all so badass this week!
Cas was in warrior mode with his quick dispatch of Crowley once he ascertained that the demon was of no further value to their quest.
Sam chewing on his wrist, since he didn't have a knife, to obtain a way to draw a devil's trap. Ick, & ouch, & yeah, that looked like it took a lot of blood. I'll give him MacGyver points for making use of what he had at hand, however.
And Dean, trying to fight off the 2 ghouls who wanted him for breakfast, killing Christian, but the topper was the verbal showdown with Gramps. Plus he looked so gorgeous doing it!

I'm wondering about the baby shifters too...

gaelicspirit
Dec. 6th, 2010 01:51 am (UTC)
I really can't believe Crowley is gone. I mean I CAN, but...I wonder if they'll find a way to use him again. Some...how.

I think Cas stayed to help not because Sam threatened him (although that was awfully creepy) but because he does care about the guys & does see them as friends.

Oh, I agree. I didn't intend to insinuate that was why he stayed. I was just so buh-wha? about him threatening Cas At All...*mind boggles*

I'm with you, I think Cas is really invested in these guys. It was especially evident at the end when he said he really wanted to be there but had to go back. *hugs him*

I think Cas had to have killed the baby shifters. I know they were, in essence, monsters...but it just makes me all...frustrated or something (can't think of a good word to describe being irritated while at the same time trying to give my show the benefit of the doubt) that we went through all of that with Bobby John only to surmise that the baby's were all killed at Monster GITMO.

*sighs*

Thank you for reading and for taking time to comment. I really appreciate it. :)

Later!
neytaritook
Dec. 5th, 2010 04:53 am (UTC)
A year of being kicked around? Try closer to 180. Remember the time difference.

I HATED blond!Meg. She couldn't act, she was a big ham. This new girl is miles better. And she called Cass "Clarence," like the angel in "It's a Wonderful Life." Not "Clarice" ;)

Hated the Cass/Meg thing. It was so entirely stupid.

I thought she was using the demon-killing knife, not the angel sword?

Those were ghouls, not vamps. Dean said "I hate ghouls."

I want Crowley back. Why can't the character I hate die?

My theory is that either Michael or Lucifer is protecting Sam's soul. It's the only way I can think of that they can get him out without it destroying him. And it's the kind of twist I can see Show pulling.
gaelicspirit
Dec. 6th, 2010 01:59 am (UTC)
Hey there - thanks for reading and taking time to comment...as well as correct me on a fair number of things. :)

A year of being kicked around? Try closer to 180. Remember the time difference.

Good point. But not one the show seems to be making lately. Even in this episode, Cas said a year. They seem to be forgetting about how 4 months = 40 years for Dean. Maybe it's just "bad enough" to think about it being a year. Longer than that is unimaginable.

I just liked blondeMeg better. But...I also liked blondeRuby better. :) Maybe I just have a thing for blonde's. Kidding!! :) I'm not blonde by the way. *laughs*

Clarence, got that, too. I was thinking "Clarice" like from Silence of the Lambs. But you and about 50 others corrected me. :) I blame it on her accent. Yeah...that's it!

I thought she was using the demon-killing knife, not the angel sword?

If you're talking about what she used to take out the Hellhounds, it was the Angel Sword. Sam tried to give the demon-killing knife to her and she declined; that was the whole point of the random Angel/Demon kiss-fest -- so that she could steal the sword. Not only that, but Dean used the knife to kill Demon!Christian.

Which brings up a whole 'nother question -- they've now had a human (Dean) and a demon (Meg) use a weapon they once claimed could only be used by an angel. Now, granted, Meg used it against hell beasts, not another angel, but still.... *frowns*

Got it. Ghouls. I stand corrected. :)

Okay, now I'm curious -- who is the character you hate? 'Cause I agree, I didn't want Crowley to die this soon. I mean, I figured he'd have to go eventually if they were going to win, but I didn't see it happening this soon or that fast.

I like your theory of Michael or Lucifer protecting Sam's soul. It falls in line with a theory I've been talking about with deangirl1. I mean, not only are there two human souls down there (even though they haven't mentioned Adam once), but these two angels have a lot to take out on EACH OTHER.

Plus...Michael was supposed to have been a 'good' angel...I just...I wonder. I kinda hope you're right. That would actually give me more hope.


Edited at 2010-12-06 02:02 am (UTC)
(no subject) - neytaritook - Dec. 6th, 2010 02:26 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - gaelicspirit - Dec. 6th, 2010 02:33 am (UTC) - Expand
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erinrua
Dec. 5th, 2010 05:49 am (UTC)
*hugs you so tight*

I don't even have words for this episode, so I'm glad you did. A few things left me a little bewildered, including how Meg got the Knife. Unless the boys were carrying it when she arranged their capture? But you have a wonderful way of stringing things together so they make sense. Bless you!

I liked this episode a. lot. It rocked on so many levels and had so many awesome scenes, and I can basically point to everything you wrote, and say, "Dittos!!!"

But I find I'm also just about tired of Soulless!Sam. He's awesome, he's amazing, he's terrible and scary and BAMF to the nth degree ... but I miss the Brothers. I do not want to spend 21 out of 22 episodes with the utter absence of Sam, with Hollow Sam, as you've so aptly named him, echoing the empty hole where Sam should be.

I want some hope. I want a ray of light from the darkness. I've been happy to take the ride to this point, but I dearly hope and pray we get some reward for making the trip, in 6.11.

Give me hope, Show. Connect the dots you've got sprayed all over the landscape and show us a road, because right now? We're at Reboot and Reset, and I need a sign pointing towards Hope.
gaelicspirit
Dec. 6th, 2010 02:04 am (UTC)
I like 'dittos'!! :) Makes me feel good to know I didn't go cross-ways of people who I enjoy hearing their thoughts. Y'know? Especially when it takes me a bit to write these things.

But I find I'm also just about tired of Soulless!Sam. He's awesome, he's amazing, he's terrible and scary and BAMF to the nth degree ... but I miss the Brothers.

YES. Word to this in everyway.

We're at Reboot and Reset, and I need a sign pointing towards Hope.

Again with the yes. I really have enjoyed this season. But for the first time, since I started watching (and I was there day 1, pilot episode) I am just confused and worried and finding myself having to have more hope that it'll all turn out "okay" then I've ever had to have before.

But maybe that's where they want us to be at this point so that they can blow us away with the awesomeness to come.

Thank you for reading and taking time to comment. I dig you, man. :)
(no subject) - erinrua - Dec. 6th, 2010 02:46 am (UTC) - Expand
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