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So, as I anticipated when closing the ramble for 7.12, Time After Time, I will be traveling to Sydney, Australia to support a two-day training bootcamp -- and with the travel time involved, I'm going to miss the initial run of episode 7.13 on Friday the 3rd. I will get to watch it on Sunday with my good friend lovinjackson, but with the meeting expectations and travel times, I will not be able to turn a ramble around very quickly. I would say that I'm just skipping this one, but you and I both know I'll have to post something.

So, the Ramble for 7.13 will be delayed until Thursday the 9th, and will most likely be an abbreviated version. A 'ramblette,' if you will. *grins* But I wanted to at least make an attempt to keep up the tradition and offer those of you who come by weekly something to read. I, for one, very much look forward to your comments.

The Ramble for 7.14 (which airs on Friday the 10th) will be on time (assuming international travel doesn't drain me like green kryptonite and I don't fall asleep on my keyboard while typing). I hope you guys will come back and chat with me about our boys!

Now...I have a writing query for those of you who read my fanfic -- or fanfic in general. I'll LJ-cut it to spare the rest of you.

I am working on a new fic and I am really, really enjoying it. The thing is, I like the SPN aspect and what the storyline is doing with Dean (and to Dean...Sam comes into play in the periphery in this one), but I am also finding that I'm actually really enjoying the original character I've created, as well as his backstory and purpose to the plot.

There have been a few OC's that I've really liked. Abe Nakomis from Ramble On and In the Light. Brenna Kavanagh from HOTLG, Within My Hands, Into the Fire, and Weapon and the Wound (like her enough to bring her back one last time). Cooper from On the Surface. Oh, and I really had fun with Eugene from Unseen Heroes.

But they all were created for and fit inside the SPN universe spun by the story that brought them alive. I couldn't see any of them standing outside of their stories. Even Brenna only feels 'right' inside of this universe.

This new guy, however...he's different somehow. He's starting to take on this life inside my head and I can see ways to lift his story and the plot and set it outside of SPN... still within the supernatural genre, but not the Winchester version of Supernatural. The idea for it is coming to me so much easier than the previous "original story" I'd been working on...the one I'd had playing around in my head for a decade, the one I tried to write for NaNoWriMo. Suddenly, that idea seems like I was trying to fit into my little sister's clothes, while this idea feels like a pair of my oldest jeans, so worn and comfy they're like sweat pants.

Here's where you guys come in. Is it possible to plagiarize yourself? If I write a fanfic, then take the plot, setting, original characters and revise it so that it's more-or-less similar just Winchester-free...is that cheating? Or perhaps...frowned upon? 

I'm kind of thinking no...I mean, I know we say "not mine" all over every fanfic, but really what we mean is anything pertaining to the show isn't ours, right? Everything else, though....

I don't know. I'm looking for input here. Because if the vast majority of responses (if there are any responses) come back saying Gaelic, you're crazy, girl. You can't go around recycling your own fanfic as original stories! Well, I'll believe you and I'll just focus on the story I'm writing with this character and leave it at that. But if you don't say that...well, then, I may play around with this idea a bit more....

Talk to me, peeps.

Also, PS random LJ spam-bots...cool it with the gucci bag posts already. Sheesh!


( 71 Tall Tales — Tell Me A Story )
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Feb. 1st, 2012 03:05 am (UTC)
For one? Yay for Sunday ... can you believe we will be hanging out in person in less than a week ... LESS THAN A WEEK ... am I excited? Maybe a little!

I am excited for this new story but to answer your question I know someone that HAS done exactly what you are suggesting and actually gotten published legitimately :) So I'd say go for it :)

Also, knowing who this original character is looking like in your head ... i'd be happy to make a video for the fic if you have one in mind. I have PLENTY of footage hehe

Word, Rodge!
Feb. 1st, 2012 02:49 pm (UTC)
YAY FOR SUNDAY!!!! *ahem* That may have been out loud.

Okay, so you know someone who has done this? That's actually VERY cool.

And I'd never say no to a vid of yours. I was actually just thinking about your vid to the song "Bother" by Stone Sour and how that fit my story Wearing and Tearing so well. I still think about it when I hear the song. That and "Snuff" by Halos...always makes me think of Weapon and the Wound.

Let me get the story going and see what you think of it, though, before I make you promise me a vid (because you know how relentless I get once that's happened). :)
Feb. 1st, 2012 03:10 am (UTC)
I've seen writers take a fanfic story, change the names and a few details, and sell it as an ebook. So go for it! After all, it's your story idea and characters, and it needs to be set someplace to get started.
Feb. 1st, 2012 02:50 pm (UTC)
I'm personally loving the ebook trend right now. I'll always love BOOK books, but the convenience of my Kindle with travel and hospital waiting rooms and.... Well, I'm all over it.

I think I will go for it!

...after I write the fanfic. LOL!
Feb. 1st, 2012 03:14 am (UTC)
Have fun in Sydney! Sounds like it will be intense and but awesome. Looking forward to your ramble or mini ramble as always.

As for your writing dilemma, I don't see an issue with what you have in mind. You had a author's note on one of your stories (might have been The Weapon and the Wound) about using fanfic as a crutch - here's a chance to use it as a stepping stone! Go for it. :)

Edited at 2012-02-01 03:16 am (UTC)
Feb. 1st, 2012 02:54 pm (UTC)
Thanks for the travel well-wishes! I'm sure it's going to be exhausting, and I'll be glad to have it done and behind me. But at the same time -- Sydney! :)

I'd almost forgotten I'd said that in my a/n. Now that you bring it up, though, I remember that a friend of mine told me that -- she was trying to encourage me to spread my wings, but ended up making me feel like fanfic was a lesser form of writing. Like what I was doing wasn't really writing since I was using someone else's characters.

Thus the 'crutch' analogy.

But since that time, I've embraced the reality that I really enjoy this. I thought I'd have to stop fanfic to write "original" work, but I just have so much fun with fanfic that I don't really know if I want to stop, y'know?

However, that said, I do realize that if I wanted to branch out -- maybe even some day be paid for this -- I have to deWinchesterize (hee) my work and see if it stands on its own.

I like that you used "stepping stone" because maybe that's what this story will be. A way to test the waters and decide if I want to go this way or that way.... :)

Thanks for taking time to comment.
Feb. 1st, 2012 03:26 am (UTC)
I say go for it.
Feb. 1st, 2012 02:54 pm (UTC)
*salutes* I believe I will.
(no subject) - yasminke - Feb. 1st, 2012 09:27 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - gaelicspirit - Feb. 1st, 2012 10:02 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - yasminke - Feb. 2nd, 2012 02:55 am (UTC) - Expand
Feb. 1st, 2012 03:41 am (UTC)
Many many fanfic writers have taken their epic fics offline and published them as original fic! Some of the better writers, too.

You should absolutely go for it! (Go for whatever makes you excited -- but know that you're in good company here!)
Feb. 1st, 2012 02:55 pm (UTC)
I feel like I've been living under a rock. I don't think I realized that so many fanfic writers had done this before. I feel a little silly now, asking the question. LOL!

I'm all for it if I'm in good company! :)
Feb. 1st, 2012 04:07 am (UTC)
Let's talk about this when you get back, yes? This has been a discussion between myself and some other friends (them thinking of doing the same thing). Lots to talk about.

Feb. 1st, 2012 02:56 pm (UTC)
Yes, let's definitely chat about it. Especially your side of the discussion when these friends bring the idea up.
Feb. 1st, 2012 04:54 am (UTC)
yeah go for it , I've seen many a writer take down a fic cause they are selling it as a e-book.

Just let us read about him in your SPN story before you make your millions off him =)
Feb. 1st, 2012 03:00 pm (UTC)
Oh -- I hadn't thought about taking it down. That's a good point.

And you most definitely will read about him in SPN. The story right now is too interwoven with Dean to be anything but an SPN fic, but I can see the potential.

Thanks for coming by!
Feb. 1st, 2012 05:15 am (UTC)
Now I'm really curious to know: who is the inspiration behind this original character's looks? If Tara says she's got footage I'm betting on your newest crash Alex O'loughlin ;)

& Gaelic, I've never written a fic but I did use some material from a previous paper in a more recent one (at university), almost copy & paste - it was my work & I have no moral issues stealing from myself ;)
So I say why not? What you write belongs to you! I'm actually excited to see you excited :) about your OC, don't miss this chance to write what feels so right & comfy.

Feb. 1st, 2012 03:59 pm (UTC)
As for the muse being used for this particular character, I can neither confirm nor deny.... ;)

I am glad you agree -- what you write belongs to you (as long as you're not claiming to own other people's characters....)

I hope you end up liking this character as much as I do. There are a few scenes with him from Dean's POV that are eating my brain. LOL!
(no subject) - jesters_tear82 - Feb. 1st, 2012 07:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - gaelicspirit - Feb. 1st, 2012 08:21 pm (UTC) - Expand
Feb. 1st, 2012 06:01 am (UTC)
If I write a fanfic, then take the plot, setting, original characters and revise it so that it's more-or-less similar just Winchester-free...is that cheating? Or perhaps...frowned upon?

Not in the slightest. This is ridiculously common in the RPS realm, where a J2 AU, for instance, is already practically original fic anyway. People post the fic, see what the fandom response is, and if it's good they take the fic down (because of course who's going to pay to read their original story if they can read the same thing for free on the 'net) and recycle it with new character names.

As for your trip, I hope it isn't too hard on you and yours, and that you're actually able to enjoy the Land Down Under (which is a place I've always wanted to visit and still hope to someday). *hugs*
Feb. 1st, 2012 04:00 pm (UTC)
Will reply in the post where you get to see it....
Feb. 1st, 2012 06:08 am (UTC)
Okay, so I tried to post a comment, but I didn't realize I wasn't logged in until I hit the button. Did you get an anonymous comment saying that retooling fanfic into original fic is done all the time, especially in J2 RPS, and not to worry about it, and to enjoy your trip to the Land Down Under? If so, it was from me. If it didn't go through, let me know and I will tell you all of those things again. Again.
Feb. 1st, 2012 04:17 pm (UTC)
I got it. :) And this. And what I love most is that you cared enough to log back in to tell me it all again. Again. :)

So I told someone above that I feel like I've been living under a rock -- I didn't realize this was done by so many other writers. I feel kinda silly asking the question now. But, hey! At least now I know that I can do this if I want to, right?

Also, wouldn't have thought to pull it down until you and impala1967 said something about it, so thanks for that. *facepalm Gaelic*

I am excited about seeing Sydney (and Tara) and being there. I'm nervous about the long flight (though I do have my iPod, computer, and Kindle -- plus paper and pen), and I'm nervous about leaving the fam (because the hubs had another migraine this morning...ugh), and I'm REALLY frakkin' nervous about the training I'm there for because I've been killing myself developing content for it and while I don't have to stand up in front of people and deliver it, they are going to be delivering what I wrote training-wise and gah! *NERVES!!!!*

But still. Sydney! I'll post a "How I Spent My Whiplash-Quick Work Trip In Australia" recap. :)
Feb. 1st, 2012 06:56 am (UTC)
Have a wonderful trip. My sister enjoyed visiting Australia when she traveled there for her former job.

If you want to recycle one of your fanfic's into an original story, you would not be the only one to have ever done so.

I have enjoyed reading your stories, so I'm sure I would love your new one. Your a wonderful and talented writer. I like your OC character's, especially Abe and Cooper.

I will admit that out of the different writers that I know who published, I've only bought books off Amazon from two of them. One author's first book was very popular with her reworked "SN" story and I have no idea why.

The other author didn't get the recognition that she should have and her two books were wonderful. She wrote a completely new story about two brothers facing a new world. I shared the books with family and friends, before reading them again myself.

So if you want to 'recycle' a "SN" story, go for it and let us know when it gets published. :)

Take care.
Feb. 1st, 2012 08:52 am (UTC)
I'd be interested to know about these 'recycled' books - do you mind giving us the author and the titles?
(no subject) - gaelicspirit - Feb. 1st, 2012 04:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - gaelicspirit - Feb. 1st, 2012 04:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
Feb. 1st, 2012 07:23 am (UTC)



Feb. 1st, 2012 04:31 pm (UTC)

I don't know that I'd 'recycle' any of the others -- just really want to take this one guy and do other things with/to him.

...which sounded a lot less dirty in my head.

You make me smile so big.
(no subject) - a_phoenixdragon - Feb. 1st, 2012 04:35 pm (UTC) - Expand
Feb. 1st, 2012 08:49 am (UTC)
First and foremost - ALL stories are to some extent or another recycled from somewhere. Recycling is what authors do. So I'd say, of course you can recycle your own plot devices, thoughts, phrases, characters... What you want to avoid is doing it in such a way that your readers will say - oh, but I've been there before, I know what's coming next...

You know, that feeling that this is all old hat.

PS I think you are wrong about Brenna not having enough whatever to exist independent of an SPN story. :D

LJ spambots are flooding my posts with Timberland ads. Obviously I am at the middle class part of the spectrum while you get Gucci!! LOL
Feb. 1st, 2012 05:20 pm (UTC)
ALL stories are to some extent or another recycled from somewhere. Recycling is what authors do.

This is a really good point. I hadn't really thought about it that way. I get what you mean -- I don't want to be predictable, even if you read my fanfic and then give the original fic a go.


And thanks for your vote about Brenna. I really dig her and her druid roots. Funny thing -- though I refer to my daughter as Mo Chuisle here, her real name and my druid astrological sign (for January) are the same. And that wasn't even planned. ;)

HA! Timberland...I swear the spamming is out of control lately. Craziness.
(no subject) - amberdreams - Feb. 1st, 2012 05:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - gaelicspirit - Feb. 1st, 2012 05:33 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - amberdreams - Feb. 1st, 2012 06:00 pm (UTC) - Expand
Feb. 1st, 2012 09:54 am (UTC)
Well... I took my character Rauda (who was originally a Doctor Who OC and had a different name) and re-developed her into an original setting/story/plot etc, so I don't see why not. In my case, I loved the character too much to let her get lost in fandom.
Feb. 1st, 2012 05:23 pm (UTC)
That's what this is becoming to me as I develop this story - that I really like him. And there are things I could do with/to him outside of this world. Which sounded less dirty in my head....

Thanks for sharing your experience. It helps a lot!
Feb. 1st, 2012 02:00 pm (UTC)
I would say once it's de-Winchesterized (I swear that's a word, really!) that it's your creation to with as you please. I can't wait to see what you come up with!
Feb. 1st, 2012 05:24 pm (UTC)
That is totally a word! In fact, I used it in a reply up above! :)

You'll see it -- I'm writing the fanfic first, so if ya'll end up hating him, I may rethink this venture. LOL!
Feb. 1st, 2012 08:32 pm (UTC)
Would you care for a VUITTON bag? <-- KIDDING, don't spam-trash me!!
No really... keep me.
I may not have much interesting to say, but I don't feel like a bot just yet. I'll let you know if things change.

As for the subject that matters: KNOCK YOURSELF OUT!!!
Whatever original character you add is all yours. Play with it, dye its hair, shave its eyebrows, give it a bicycle pulled by a rabbit, 2 rabbits, 2 rabbits & a tortoise (wouldn't want the rabbits to get tired too fast), drown it in the Loch Ness, have it get attacked by a shark (I hear that tends to happen in Australia these days - please stay out of the water, I'd miss your stories... I mean you, I'd miss you)... you get the picture.

What if your story is awesome (which, hello!!! they all are!!!) but the whole Sam & Dean thing limits it to the Supernatural fandom world... IMAGINE!! You'd want to deprive the rest of the World (and as much as SN fans want to believe they are legion, 98% of the World has no idea that Winchester isn't just the rifle but a pretty whumpable ass too - I say ass, but it's not restrictive) deprive the rest of the World, I was saying, of the awesomeness that is your writing??!!! That would just be selfish and maybe even cruel.

Most of all, if you feel inspired and comfortable writing it, don't hold back. Isn't it the best, when a story and its characters start to take control and you're just there to tell what you're seeing, what they are telling you to write?
Your characters are yours.
Your story is yours.
Your talent is yours.
You just sometimes borrow other instruments, more well known ones, to make your symphony more appealing. They are just like giant Arrows pointing to it so more people can find it, like directions "This way". In no way does it mean that if you take them away, the symphony will lose its magic; it only means the listeners/readers will have to pay more attention, focus more, to learn to appreciate the other instruments.
WOW... no idea where that came from. It must be the cold. My brain is frelted. (Frozen + Melted = Frelted dixit Deeks from NCIS-LA)

I'll shut up now and let you get back to playing with your new story. I'll be there frozen in the corner waiting for it.
In the end all that matters is that you have fun writing!!

Take care!
Feb. 1st, 2012 09:54 pm (UTC)
Re: Would you care for a VUITTON bag? &lt;-- KIDDING, don&#39;t spam-trash me!!
give it a bicycle pulled by a rabbit

This made me laugh almost as much as your subject line. I swear those spam-bots drive me NUTTY!

LOVE your symphony analogy. That was beautiful. This feedback has me really pumped to dig into this story and see what happens. I really hope that when ya'll read the fanfic, you like this character as much as I do...we'll have to see... ;)
Feb. 1st, 2012 10:14 pm (UTC)
I say.. it's your story.. do with it as you want!
Feb. 1st, 2012 10:22 pm (UTC)
:) Thanks, my friend. I appreciate your input.
(Deleted comment)
Feb. 3rd, 2012 04:12 am (UTC)
OMG - y'know, I didn't even think of it that way. I guess with you I was thinking that you're taking a character you created for fanfic and then creating a world around her. With this, I was thinking of taking a fanfic story and plucking the SPN out of it.

But really...I'd have to change a lot to make it deWinchesterized, so...yeah. It's not really that different from what you and I had talked about.

Duh, Gaelic.
Feb. 1st, 2012 11:14 pm (UTC)

Hope you have a great time 'down under', but I'm still eager to ramble (even if it is a bit late)!

Is it possible to plagiarize yourself?
I would say no. Let me explain myself. I view writing as an art form and if we're talking about art there are lots of instances where the artist takes the same subject, setting, and elements and creates a new work. Like Thomas Kincade, he paints the same cottage over, and over, and over...well you get the idea. I think if you want to change some elements and un-Winchester-ize your story, you should go for it.

I'm kind of thinking no...I mean, I know we say "not mine" all over every fanfic, but really what we mean is anything pertaining to the show isn't ours, right? Everything else, though....
I agree. The plot line and original characters are yours. If they pop up in an original story of yours, that is totally acceptable since you created them.

Hope this helps!

Can't wait to read this new story!

See ya on the flip side!

Feb. 3rd, 2012 04:13 am (UTC)
No worries -- the ramble shall be here (eventually)! :)

I didn't think about Kincade's cabin. Huh. That's a really good point. :)

Thanks for taking time to comment. I appreciate the insight.
Feb. 2nd, 2012 03:56 am (UTC)
*sniffle* I will miss your ramblings terribly! So much that I almost feel bad for saying Ha Ha I have chocolate over on Facebook!

Now, as far as the story goes...oh my goodness, WRITE IT!!!! This is what you NEED! If this makes writing original stuff easy, then DO IT! TODAY!!

I had an OC take on a life of her own so that I couldn't write her in fanfic anymore because she wanted to be the star. I need to write her story one of these days. She's not even posted here on LJ, and only a couple of people even know about her. DON'T FOLLOW MY PATHETIC EXAMPLE!!! :)
Feb. 3rd, 2012 04:14 am (UTC)
You taunting me with your chocolate stash is just plain mean. MEAN, I tell you.

The ramble will be up eventually; I'm sorry to make you miss it. I'll be thinking of all ya'll getting to watch our boy while I'm 30K feet in the air. ;)

I promise not to follow your example. I'll just do what you say. ;) Hee. Take care of you!
(no subject) - primrose_1 - Feb. 3rd, 2012 05:09 pm (UTC) - Expand
Feb. 2nd, 2012 07:51 pm (UTC)
I was actually encouraged to change the names of the characters in one fan-fic (based on the Alien movies) and try and publish that. I didn't want to at the time because the story was about the characters from the Alien movies, after all. But the idea is definitely not frowned upon. I say go for it. I've discovered that writing original fic is tons of fun. :) I'm almost done with my very first novel-length story and yes, I am going to try and get it published. So I say, yes, go for it. Have fun. Let your wonderful mind run with the idea and enjoy every moment of it.

I hope you have a great trip, by the way, and I'll catch you when you get back.


Edited at 2012-02-02 07:52 pm (UTC)
Feb. 3rd, 2012 03:16 pm (UTC)
Hey -- CONGRATS on being almost done with your novel-length story! That's fantastic. *is excited for you*

I'm hopeful this idea keeps hold beyond the SPN fanfic. :)

Getting ready to leave for trip now. :) See you soon.
Feb. 2nd, 2012 09:07 pm (UTC)
Yup, yup, yup!! And have a fabulous time in Oz too.

Jane :)

Feb. 3rd, 2012 03:16 pm (UTC)
Thanks! Getting ready to leave now.... Eeep!
Feb. 2nd, 2012 11:54 pm (UTC)
This: "Suddenly, that idea seems like I was trying to fit into my little sister's clothes, while this idea feels like a pair of my oldest jeans, so worn and comfy they're like sweat pants." answers the question of whether you should pursue using this original character that you've created in another universe - which would you rather wear? ;)

As everyone else says, by all means, go for it. He's YOUR character, and you are generating YOUR ideas when you cast him in some universe other than SN. By definition, there is nothing to plagiarize when the idea/character/plot/concept originates from you. And I love the word "deWinchesterize", you should coin it. ;)

I had a feeling that something wasn't clicking with your original fiction and I think you've found what it is - you didn't like your concept/character like you needed to in order to throw yourself into the writing.

So as Ellen would say, "Kick it in the ass!". Enjoy your trip as much as a whirlwind will allow.

Until your return,
Feb. 3rd, 2012 03:18 pm (UTC)
He's eating my brain -- vying for attention with Dean. I mean, long, long ago my OC Michael from my story "Gone" did the same thing. But now this guy has attributes and personality traits that currently resonate with me. I think I will see where this takes me. :)

Getting ready to leave for trip now. See you when I get back. :)
Feb. 3rd, 2012 03:31 am (UTC)
I'll be there for your next ramble no matter when it comes. I think that it is possible to plagiarize yourself, but in this case I don't think it applies. I think it would only be considered plagiarism if you were formally submitting it somewhere. So maybe if you do publish it afterwards, you would have to remove the original SPN. It sounds like a confusing topic! Have a great trip!
Feb. 3rd, 2012 03:19 pm (UTC)
Yay! I look forward to seeing you when I get back.:)

And if I do take this character further, I'll probably pull down the SPN story I'm currently writing -- but not until those who'd like to read it have read it. ;)

Take care!
Feb. 4th, 2012 04:07 am (UTC)
So not cheating! Absolutely go for it! It's an OC and therefore belongs to you. Whatever you do with it is your right! Can't wait to meet this guy. :D
Feb. 4th, 2012 04:39 am (UTC)
Thanks, my friend. That's the vibe I'm getting across the board, so I think that will be the plan going forward. I hope you like what you see when you meet him in tthe SPN fic....
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