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Those of you who read my episode Ramble know that I write it immediately after one viewing. Sometimes, that's enough for me (and probably you). Other times, I find that I process through some things either because of comments left or simply just replaying it in my head head after the fact. Normally, when I have more to say, I have another episode Ramble where I can do so.

Not true with a finale. So, I thought I'd post this.

Also -- I will be replying to the lovely comments left on the finale Ramble -- I just had to get a few things in order (and apparently write this up) before I got to all of them. Plus...I might be delaying replying a bit on purpose because once I do...the hellatus has truly begun. I appreciate your patience (and your comments).

Mainly, when I write up my reviews, I focus on the way the story roles out and how the characters -- primarily Dean -- respond to that story. There are plot holes and hand-wave moments, but I'm willing to overlook those for the sake of the story and the characters I enjoy watching so much. It's not a critique-type review; it's nothing more than what I call it: a stream of consciousness reaction. And I know that it's probably overly-positive in some respects, but the bottom line is, I enjoy the show and the characters. If I didn't, I'd stop watching. So that enjoyment plays through the reviews.

Since Friday's finale, I've seen some reactions on my f-list by fans who were disappointed in the finale. Significantly so. Normally, I purposely don't seek out other reviews because I like enjoying the show and I know that to go elsewhere is to risk being brought down to Earth, so to speak. But these were folks on my f-list and I couldn't not read. Plus, I feel that everyone is entitled to their opinion and was curious about how other's expressed their thoughts. So, just because I enjoyed it, doesn't mean I can't appreciate why other's didn't. As @SuperWiki tweeted the other day: "A fandom without obsession and passionate arguments is just an audience."

I thought that hit the proverbial nail on the head when it came to the varying reactions to both this season and this season's finale.

To be honest, I couldn't disagree with many of the points made in the posts. They weren't rants -- the ones I read. They were thoughtful critiques measuring our show against it's own past and it's own rules, and finding it wanting.

Such as the following:

1) The final three episodes were slow and rather full of exposition, and the boys were handed a good deal of the answers by outside sources.  I tried to apply a three-act play analogy, hoping the 3rd Act would culminate in more action, less talking. That wasn't the case, though I still contend that for me, the final moments made up for feeling the drag of minutes mid-way through. The pacing felt off -- which is why I think we needed so much explanation (or the writers thought we did, anyway). And too many bread crumbs had to be picked up too quickly at the end. The same felt true for me of the end of S6, so I'm hopeful that there could be changes across the board with S8.

2) Bobby. I really liked the idea of having him as a ghost when we first got the confirmation -- I saw so much potential for how that story could have played out. But the writers had him going vengeful so quickly it was almost as if they changed their minds and knew they had to finish his story by the end of the season. I do like that they had him redeem himself by realizing he had to stop what he was doing, and both learning and teaching the lesson that when it's your time, go. But in retrospect, there were different ways the boys could have learned that lesson (Dean learned it through his stint as Death, for example), and now that it's done, I almost wish they hadn't brought Bobby back -- despite how great it was to see Jim Beaver again. If he'd nobly sacrificed himself saving the boys, maybe I would think differently. But, while I thought his final farewell was a moving performance by all and made my heart hurt for Sam & Dean, it felt like the writers had this great idea and then either ran out of time or couldn't decide what to do with it.

3) The Leviathans - a slow, oddly un-threatening (though their plan should have held more weight in the fear department than it did) nemesis who was rather easy to kill in the end, once the right Dick Roman was found. An argument could be made for arrogance -- Dick never really feared the Winchesters until it was really too late. But even with arguments in defense of the way the story played out, it really was slow. This is the 2nd season in a row where I can agree to being underwhelmed by the Big Bad (which is one of the reasons I'm not sure I want a "Big Bad" story arc in S8...unless it's Crowley).

4) I've seen some comments about 'fanservice' as it relates to Castiel, Bobby, even the Impala. I've already talked about Bobby, and I totally agree that the Impala's return was not long enough and seemed to be just brought back for us (Dean not driving her just felt all kinds of wrong), and as far as Cas, well...I really enjoy him when he's onscreen -- even as bee-Cas -- but I don't exactly miss him when he's gone. I basically take him as they give him to us and watch how his involvement affects Dean. Regardless, I don't know that I am terribly bothered by 'fanservice'. We're talking about a show that's repeatedly broken the 4th wall. If they bring back a character (or car) just to make fans happy, well...I'm a fan. So...I'm happy. The only time it doesn't work for me is when the writers bring them back then seem to lose their way (see Point #2, above). I appreciate writing that introduces characters for a purpose that's meaningful to the plot or to the central characters -- which is why I'm okay with Cas' return; he could still play a critical role in S8.

Still, even though I can agree with those points, the bottom line is that I enjoyed S7. Maybe I just enjoyed being able to see Dean; maybe it was that I found it more my style than S6. I don't know for sure. I do know I had fun. And while I love a riveting, take-your-breath-away, how are they even still standing type finale as much as the next guy, I think that, ultimately, the finale achieved the most important job of any season finale: setting the stage for what comes next.

It engaged us for next season, setting up players and positions and circumstances that we can speculate upon all during the hellatus and revving us up to be on our couches, eyes glued to the TV when S8 premieres. Whether that was Sera's clever writing, or Jeremy's clever revisions, I don't know if we'll truly find out (though I know we all have our own suspicions).

So, with that, I have some wishes I'd love to see in S8. I know I'm not alone in some of these as I've seen random comments on Twitter and my f-list. I've not read any codas or tags yet and don't know if I will, to be honest. But I would love to hear your wishes for S8.

These are just early thoughts through my admittedly Dean-colored view. I know there were some who weren't pleased that the brothers were separated again, but I liked it. I really do see this as a fantastic way to give each of the brothers a unique storyline and offer some intriguing storytelling opportunities. Also, I think exploring Purgatory a bit further than we did Hell and a bit deeper than we did Heaven would be intriguing.

I want partnership to be a theme. The brothers acting as brothers -- which they can do even when parted. There are things they've learned from each other that can play through in the episodes until they're reunited. Sam taking care of the Impala or sweet-talking information out of a lady. Dean out-smarting a monster instead of out-fighting them. Something that says, "I was thinking of my brother when I did this."

Then when they are reunited, I want them to be brothers again. Like the small moments of remembering their childhood (aka the Playboy scene in the 2nd to last episode). Laughing together, working off of each other, fighting for each other. Without either of them dying the feeling we got in Season 2 when they ripped our hearts out and pasted them back in over and over.

I would also like more of the boys working things out -- through discovery, research, or conversation -- than people revealing things to them. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed a good many of the guest stars in S7, but rather than everyone else around the boys being lucky or smart, I want to see them pull off the last-minute save without added input. I'm all for guest starts as they offer us another view into the boys' lives and give them someone to react to that's different from each other. But I would love to see Sam and Dean be the ones to figure out Crowley's secret, or the way to kill the Kappa, or...whatever (obviously pulling examples out of my...hat).

And like I said in the 2nd to the last ramble, I'm good with not having a new "big bad" this year. I'd be perfectly happy if the big challenge was simply getting Dean out of Purgatory, then dealing with him being back, finding their own brand of "normal" (as in where to they fit in this world, can they have lives outside of hunting, will they ever have relationships, or are they all doomed) and fighting monsters off one-by-one in the meantime.

No body left in the lab means (to me) that Dean didn't actually die when he was sucked into Purgatory. If he didn't die, then I'm thinking he's going to have to survive the 'monster lands' as a human -- Hunger Games-style. They showed us Purgatory as if it were an actual place -- but does it have water, regular animals, edible vegetation? Does it have cycles of day and night? I would love to see him having to find shelter, find food, fashion weapons, operate in survival mode. Finding ways to live off the "land" as best he can, staying alive, killing whatever comes after him (or trying to). I see a beard in his future, even. He's always been street-smart, but lately we've seen a lot of answers and solutions given to him. Have him remember and use the hunting skills his dad taught him, what he had to learn on his own growing up as he did, what's helped him make it this far in life.

Cas said that all of the souls there were monsters -- but what were they before? Angels? Demons? I'm sure vamps, shifters, werewolves, all of those are there, too. How many will Dean "know" or will know him? I would love some ways to play on his memories, some monsters stronger than others, some easier to take down. Can he actually kill them? Is Cas right -- are they all monsters or could he run into someone who is human? Someone he might know? How does time pass in Purgatory? However long they have in there in the show, I would like at least 2-3 episodes of it, showing what he goes through. They can elongate the time however they wish, so long as it's not another "4 months later" and he's crawling out of a hole.

When he returns to the world, I would love to see his experience there playing with him. Have some Hurt Locker-Dean. A moment of having to buy cereal and flummoxed because that's the biggest decision he has to make that day and how does that even matter? Jumping at loud sounds or the roar of an engine. Going into fight mode at the smallest threat or touch. Not able to sleep in a bed -- the floor more comfortable at first. Not a season full of this, but having the reaction actually play out for an episode or two. Show, don't tell.

I'd also like the time with Cas to impact him a bit, too -- like maybe he can't sleep without someone nearby, watching his back. And I'd like their shared experience there to help Dean forgive and reunite these two as friends -- make Cas' return be purposeful in that it helps Dean grow and learn emotionally. I think it's important that Dean have his friend back, recognize he's worth that friend.

Eventually he'll be able to re-enter the world and be his normal self, but then what? Fight more monsters and send them to where he was? How will that affect him mentally? Will he be more or less likely to want a regular life? Will he still have a driving desire to take care of Sam as before? And will the fact that Cas was in Purgatory with him affect his relationship with Sam? One thing I do not want to see is any "wedge" being driven between the brothers because of this. I mean, sure, there's the fact that they're both going to be going through things neither one will be able to truly understand, but I want that to help bond them further, not drive them apart.

I do not want Dean to "replace" the closeness we've watched him reestablish with Sam by needing Cas more. That was something I really enjoyed about S7 - how the brothers started to be brothers again. I want that to be the thing that saves them in the end -- each of them keep fighting because they know their brother's out there, fighting, surviving, looking for them or looking for a way back.

Having Sam on his own like this is a great way for him to overcome the understandable hesitancy he's had since Cas healed him from Lucifer. I would like for him to get stronger -- not shut off emotionally like he did in Mystery Spot, not seek out a crutch like he did with Ruby after Dean died, but come into his own as his father's son, a savvy hunter who knows how to defeat monsters and can research to find where Dean is. His emotions could be his ally in this, serving to fuel his hunt and find is brother. I would like to see what Sam's really capable of when he's put to the test and doesn't have demon blood or hellvision to help or hinder him.

I would like him to seek out Sheriff Mills -- because I adore her, and because she saw how Sam was when Dean was sucked to the 1940's and would understand -- and use her to help his research. I would love for him to circle back to Visiak's house or story and figure out how she found a path out of Purgatory. I would love for him to have to engage the Alpha Vamp for help, leaving them with a moral dilemma of sorts later -- he helped get Dean out, can they kill him now?

I want to see him focused on getting Dean back, killing baddies only when they get in his way or threaten him or someone he's nearby -- not having him seek out jobs/hunts until Dean is back. I want to see him have to contend with Crowley -- would like to see them try to match wits -- and keep that guy off his back (and aside...I would like to get to the bottom of Crowley as well, because I'm not 100% convinced he's 100% demon). I would like to see him have to maybe even get a job or something because he needs to fund his search. Something that super-imposes a "regular" life against Dean's "irregular" circumstances. I would also love to see him take care of the Impala in a "for Dean" way.

When Dean comes back, I would love Sam to have to find a way to navigate around this Purgatory Traumatic Stress Disorder brother of his. How does Sam cope? Does he remember his Hell experiences? Does he try too hard? Not hard enough?

Obviously he still has his powers in Purgatory as he was able to "blink" out there at the end, but it would be interesting if those powers were limited. I would like him to still be "bee-Cas" at first at least -- using the experience in Purgatory -- perhaps having to save Dean from something, but unable to heal him -- slowly return him to his powerful 'angel of the Lord' persona. I think it would be interesting to see him be vulnerable to some of the creatures -- actually killable. But I don't want him to die -- just be vulnerable to death.

I would really like something about his experience in Purgatory to restore his faith (stranger things have happened). And I would like for him to be looking for a path out while Sam's looking for a path in. It would be super-awesome if they find each other in one of those random chance/destiny moments. And I would also love it if when they free Cas and Dean, the Leviathans are sucked back in to replace them, but that could really be wishful thinking.

When they get out, I would love for Cas to go to Heaven to finish "cleaning up his mess" as Dean put it and help restore a bit of order to Heaven so that the boys might have some angels on their side again, rather than everything in and out of the world against them.

I have no idea what all to expect from Jeremy Carver by way of arc and "big bad" and anything else beyond Purgatory, but I do think he's set up for a great start, and I'm excited to see what's to come. Heck, I'm excited to see Dean again, but that's a given. Purgatory could last a whole lot longer than just Dean's time there and the aftermath of his return.

What do you guys think? What is your wish list? What are you looking forward to? What are you worried about?

(And, PS...I know I've not been keeping up on replying to posts right away this week, but I will reply. Cross my heart.)


( 38 Tall Tales — Tell Me A Story )
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May. 25th, 2012 05:08 am (UTC)
There is so much to discuss about the upcoming season and I'm happy to see that. I really haven't felt this excited about a new season in a long time and it feels good.
Just from the bits we've gotten from the show, I think Purgatory is the place where just monsters go - things like the Leviathans and those created by Eve. But that encompasses a lot with vampires, werewolves,shapeshifters,djinns, etc. But I do have questions about the in-betweens. What about wendigos who were human but because of cannibalism, they became monsters? Same with rugurus. And will Dean meet up with his "daughter" Emma again?
I agree with all you want for Dean and I hope that this is the time when he will start to see himself as we see him. If all he has to rely upon is himself and his knowledge, then maybe he will return from Purgatory more confident and with a greater sense of his own worth. I know that he'll never rid himself entirely of self-doubt and the feeling of the weight of the world is on his shoulders and I wouldn't want him too. But I would like to see him with a little more light in his eyes, more snap to his step. We haven't seen Dean really joyous since season 2 and for me, it's way past time. That said, I'm going to contradict myself and say that I'd also like his stint in purgatory to awaken his hellPTSD, which we never got to really see. But both can be accomplished if the writers have Dean suffer flashbacks to hell but steadily overcome them as he overcomes the monsters.
Sam is the big question mark here. I still do not understand how this man, who got a full-ride to Stanford and scored high on the LSATS, could make so many god-awful decisions. While Sam has changed during the course of the show, those changes have been merely physical or related to hunting. On the emotional and mental levels, the writers have left him stuck as a 22 year old with little life experience. That's not fair to the character or to the fans and I hope that Carver fixes this ongoing problem. During this time of separation, I hope Sam faces these problems head-on. No deals, no crawling into a bottle, no demonic powers, no Ruby 3.0. Just plain intelligence, experience, and training. I would also like Sam to grow up to the point where he can see beyond himself, see the impact that his actions have on others (namely Dean), and stop judging everything by how it will affect him.
Castiel, well once again, I agree in that I can take him or leave him. When he's on screen, I appreciate the humor he can provide and the different perspective on the guys and on the world. But I find that I didn't miss him all that much this year so I guess I'll have to wait and see.
My two biggest fears is that Carver will repeat the mistakes of Kripke and Gamble. The first fear is that he'll set up this season's version of "What's wrong with Sam this year?" where Dean has to save his brother, protect his brother, or glue him back together. The other fear is that Dean's potential storyline is a red herring to placate Dean fans and have them return for a new season or that it will be completely dropped by the Christmas break with no resolution. I also hope that Carver avoids another mistake in the splitting up of each season where Dean has the focus of the first half then his story is abruptly dropped and the second half goes to Sam. For me, this always indicated poor writing and showrunning. Why could there never be a continuous and simultaneous storyline for both guys?
Jun. 3rd, 2012 07:23 pm (UTC)
Love these thoughts. And I agree that Sam is a big question mark. Not really excited about another "what's wrong with Sam this year," year but if it's something that relates to Dean, well.... ;)

And ditto on wanting continuous and simultaneous storylines. *grins*

Thanks for reading and sharing!
May. 25th, 2012 05:08 am (UTC)
I agree with most of this post.

I want 3 episodes of PurgaDean followed by PTSDean. I mean, come on! First Hell, then everyone dying, then PurgaDean -- of course he'll have deep, deep issues. And no worms at the bottom of a bottle.

I want Sam to search for a way to get Dean out, (and Cas) without the (stupid) dependencies he tends to display. Whether he is the one who gets him out or not, I don't care.

I like EphemeralCas. I do not want him to be miraculously fixed; I want him to be fixed by his deeds. Or not. No problem with MeshugaCas.

I despised having Bobby back. I adore Bobby, but the execution of that was very, very meh. (That may have been tainted by me being spoiled by the cast & crew.)

I loved Dick -- he was so smarmy. Swoon. But Crowley was FREAKING amazing. Meg -- over her unless she is a help to EphemeralCas.

Can't think of any more.
Jun. 3rd, 2012 07:25 pm (UTC)
I think Dick was a love/hate baddie. Some hated him, some loved him, some...loved to hate him, or hated to love him. I should stop not. *laugh*

Thank you for reading and sharing -- now all we have to do is wait until OCTOBER!! :)
(no subject) - yasminke - Jun. 4th, 2012 06:32 am (UTC) - Expand
May. 25th, 2012 07:42 am (UTC)
This has the potential to either repeat themes from past years or go off in a new direction, so I am nervously anticipating what they will give us.

I do want Dean to go badass in Purgatory rather than collapse in despair. This setup could 'reset' Dean closer to the emotional place of the earliest seasons, and I miss that Dean. I am nervously anticipating what show will do, though.

I agree that it's become too much of solutions handed to the boys instead of being worked out on their own. Without Bobby, or Frank, or coherent Cas, we might get to see the smart Winchesters again. I am nervously anticpating what we will get, though.

Sam has lost Dean before. This time I want to see focused!Sam as opposed to out-of-his-mind-with-grief!Sam. I am nervously anticipating how the writers will move him from that moment of shock in Dick's lab to the next step.

I have so much invested in Sam and Dean now that I will watch no matter what. But I am nervously anticipating a knock-my-socks-off season while preparing for the uneven but still wouldn't miss it continuation of episodes like the last 3 years' worth.

Five months is a very long time to live with nervous anticipation...
Jun. 3rd, 2012 07:27 pm (UTC)
SO great to hear from you!

Love reading all of this -- thank you for taking time to read mine and sharing yours.

Now all we have to do is wait until OCTOBER! Gah! :)

I hope you come back by over the hellatus. I'll miss you otherwise.
May. 25th, 2012 08:27 am (UTC)
Agreed, so much. I'd like S8 to be a time of purging for both brothers--Sam shedding his self-absorption (not that he hasn't had his hands full this season, but Dean's going to need him to do more than just worry), Dean shedding the irrational parts of his guilt and maybe finding ways to forgive himself for Hell. And I think that process will need to continue beyond getting Dean out of Purgatory. I'm picturing it as being kind of like the allegorized version of Purgatory in Tolkien's "Leaf by Niggle": hard labor (survival/rescue) until whatever lessons that can teach have been learned, followed by rest and healing. Where they go from there, I have no clue.
I would also like for them not to be wholly friendless. Assuming dead angels wind up in Purgatory, I *really* want Dean to get Gabriel back, and maybe Anna... not so much Balthazar (sorry, I just don't like the character or the actor). I'd also like some of the friendly monsters to have his back--Lenore, Madison, Ellie Visyak, maybe give Dean a chance to apologize to Amy and get her on his side. Kind of on the fence about Emma, though that could get interesting. And there's the question of whether Bobby, Mary, and/or John are actually in Heaven or whether they and other ghosts might be in Purgatory. On Sam's end, I definitely want him to team up with Jodi Mills and possibly Garth, maybe get Charlie back for taking down Roman Inc. if Felicia Day is free, possibly Missouri if he doesn't even know where to start. I could also *maybe* see him calling in Don Stark and/or the Wiccan lady from "Repo Man" for research help, but I can't see him going beyond witches, especially since he already knows that the Alpha Vamp doesn't know how to open Purgatory. Definitely no demons this time, and it's doubtful whether any angels would even dare approach him now.
And then there are wild cards: Meg, if she gets loose; Death and Kali; the fairies; the Upstairs Roadhouse. I'd rather have Sam not making a deal with Death the way Dean did, but Death could have something to contribute of his own accord... he does seem to kind of like Dean, the whole binding debacle aside.
Carver seems to be king of the mytharc, so I'm less worried about great ideas fizzling out as they've done the last two seasons. He also seems to be king of the brotherly bond, so I'm not too worried there. But I do want the boys to start heading toward some resolutions and some victories. What's going to get interesting, aside from the personal part of the storyline, is what's going to happen once Dean's back and recovered. If the vamptonite is thinning the ranks of the corporeal monsters and word on how to take down rank-and-file leviathans has spread far enough through the hunting grapevine, what's going to be left for the boys to do in terms of old-school hunting? Gods, ghosts, and fae? Crowley and the Alpha Vamp seem to be the only worthy opponents left on the board, unless and until someone manages to get the Cage open again.
Crowley's endgame, though, that intrigues me (as did Meg's, but we're less likely to get that story now). Sooner or later the boys are bound to try to get Kevin back. But why does Crowley want him in the first place? What's he after? And what *is* Crowley? Mark Sheppard doesn't think he's a demon, either....

Anyway. Lots to ponder. :)
Jun. 3rd, 2012 07:33 pm (UTC)
Most definitely a lot to ponder -- love what you shared here. I am going to be chewing on all of this and more as we wait until OCTOBER (gah).

Thank you for taking time to read and share.

I thought of you earlier today when I saw that Richard Dawson had passed. Hogan has lost one of his heroes. :(
(no subject) - ramblin_rosie - Jun. 3rd, 2012 08:03 pm (UTC) - Expand
May. 25th, 2012 10:23 am (UTC)
So, Season 7 was good, but for me did not measure up to seasons 1-5. We need a good leader & I believe we've found one in Jeremy Carver, who's heart & mind is closer to Kripke's than Sera's (that's how I feel). So I'm choosing to look forward, I'm getting so excited just reading your wish list!!

I agree with your points, Purgatory is so interesting to explore, I want to see Dean first adjusting to being separated from Sam again, being a lone hunter (kinda like he was pre season 1 when John left him) & the toll it takes on him, worry over the world he left Sam in. Cas should be around but not a constant, popping in & out, at least at the beginning - I don't want Cas magically healed to normalcy. I need Dean to adjust & fight & feel alone until Cas gets back to his old self (not sure how) but it'll be nice to have a few episodes showing us their friendship evolving - & how this will affect their future relationship when / if they both get out of Purgatory. I would most like to see a scene where Dean is alone, broken, on the verge of death, very close to giving up but then at the last moment is inspired (maybe even a sign from God?) picks himself up & fights his way back to the real world & to Sam.

As for monsters I'm wondering if Bobby's there.. he went (almost) vengefull though I prefer they do not play this card & let him rest in peace. Dean should deal with some old enemies from the past though.. (read some great ideas in the comments above) I prefer less demons/angels as this was hell's stint - purgatory should be about lots of mythology, shapeshifters, werewolves, olden gods & their kind, I love when they bring in different cultures so this is a wonderful chance to dig up some strange, new creatures too, Dean having to fight not only the known evil but also "fresh" dead baddies. & are will he meet "monsters" who are victims too? Evil by necessity, not by choice, example: turned vamps / or born into evil but trying to change their ways like Amy from last season? & if you die there where does the sould go or does it cease to exist completely. I want answers darn it! :)
& what if Dean opening the gate back means some "friends" joining the ride.. *shivers*

Sam - LOVE your idea of both brothers thinking of each other even they're apart, showing us little gestures. Sam taking gentle care of the Impala - *rubs heart* Using his smarts on a "search & rescue" mission, doing it mostly by himself but getting the emotional support from friends like Judy Mills (whom I adore as well) - already read a fic where he goes to her for comfort. They both lost their families & she knows & gets what Dean means to him. Would also love Charlie to return as his geeky assistant, besides would love to see some likable, female characters surviving our show till the end :)
Also he should deal mainly with the fallout from last season, loose leviathans & Crowley's reign, less with unrelated cases until Dean returns. If Meg manages to escape Crowley's clutch she can be a (temporary) ally to Sam, wanting to bring Crowley down & save Cas (she might have some remaining feelings for the cuckoo angel.. ;)

All in all, the purgatory story line should last about 4-6 episodes: not an easy quick fix but also not to drag on, causing another season of the guys not together like I need them to be :) I agree Cas should not substitute Sam, he's an important friend to Dean but the season really should be about the boys each finding their balance alone, to return stronger to fight by each other's side. My main worry - some stupid reason to set the brothers against one another once more! We've had way too much of that :( & my wishful thinking for the day? Let Carver who wrote the Chrismas ep where little Sam gave young Dean the amulet, find a way to close this hurtful subject with Sam giving it back to Dean, either when they're reunited or by the end of our show.

*holding on to fangirl dream*

Jun. 3rd, 2012 07:38 pm (UTC)
LOVE IT! Thank you for reading and taking time to share your thoughts. SO much to think about over the next five months.

Hope you come back this way over the hellatus -- I don't want to miss you. ;)
May. 25th, 2012 01:42 pm (UTC)

1) The final three episodes were slow and rather full of exposition, and the boys were handed a good deal of the answers by outside sources. I tried to apply a three-act play analogy, hoping the 3rd Act would culminate in more action, less talking. That wasn't the case, though I still contend that for me, the final moments made up for feeling the drag of minutes mid-way through. The pacing felt off -- which is why I think we needed so much explanation (or the writers thought we did, anyway).

I think you summed up here excellently what has been my major problem with this whole season, particularly the last few episodes. The whole season felt a bit slow and dull at times and like you said there was a lot of talking and not enough action, which I was okay with for a few episodes but I expected so much more in the finale and it didn't happen.
Jun. 3rd, 2012 07:38 pm (UTC)
Hi there -- thanks for reading and taking time to comment. :)
May. 25th, 2012 05:47 pm (UTC)
Honestly? When I first realized you were listing some of the things people were unhappy about, I wasn't sure I wanted to read it because I've really tried to separate myself from controversy this year. But, I went ahead and foraged on...and I gotta admit, I do agree with several points. But it was all stuff I'd already thought before. The Leviathans were a pretty big flop. The tension was sorely lacking and the boys were rarely in any real peril.

Although, I did like Dick. He was one of those characters you loved to hate. I feel he was sorely under used. Maybe he wasn't scary, but he was obnoxiously infuriating. That little smile of his--man, it was creepy/slash annoying. I really don't understand why we didn't see him more.

As far as Bobby, I agree. Given what they did with him, I wish they had just left him dead. Like you, I was exited when they first brought him back--I thought it was a neat premise to blow the standard set by the show by having a useful ghost around. I don't see what the point was in bringing him back only to have to get rid of him again. Poor boys had to watch him "die" twice. Blah.

And, yes, I agree the last three eps were slow. The finale was way slower than a finale should be (which is why Once Upon a Time Beats Supernatural in my finale rankings). However, the last few minutes made me so happy, I don't even care. As you know, I love Cas. I do miss Cas when he's not around. Sam just doesn't do it for me anymore on his own. His relationship with Dean hasn't been the same since season four and, while things have been better lately (it's been nice seeing them work as a mature, capable team), that something-something just isn't there anymore.Not for me, at least.

I do still love the boys, I really do, but Cas adds an element to Dean's relationships that I don't feel Sam achieves anymore. So, for me, I love that Dean and Cas are stuck in Purgatory together. It gives Sam a chance to angst over Dean (which I like) and to maybe break his pattern by actually staying out of trouble while he figures out what to do on his own. Plus, this situation gives Dean a chance to be in peril (which I love) and for Cas to help redeem himself and work for Dean's forgiveness.

So, for me, the last five minutes made everything spades and I'm thrilled. To me, this is the most exciting set up leading into the next season that we've had since season three's finale. I can't wait, I'm excited and it's been a long time since that happened.

As for my list of wishes--I might make a post on that later...I think this is already taking up too much space on your blog, lol!

Edited at 2012-05-25 05:50 pm (UTC)
Jun. 3rd, 2012 07:42 pm (UTC)
Thanks for taking a chance. I am hugely positive when it comes to our show, but I also wanted to be realistic. And sometimes I need to recognize the not-so-great to better appreciate the amazing.

I hope you come back to share your S8 wishes -- or post them somewhere else and tell me where. :)

Come back by over the hellatus, okay?
May. 25th, 2012 09:03 pm (UTC)
Loved your post and your wish list! I'm afraid that most of the Dean in-depth PTSD will have to come in the form of fan-fiction. ;) I would love to see Dean (and Cas occasionally) in Purgatory, trying to survive by his hunting skills alone. Wouldn't it be great to see Gordon, Ellie, Emily, Lenore, Jack (the Rugaru), Daddy Djinn, the shape-shifter who turned into Dean, and the crazy Dracula? Such possibilities - of course they will probably be wasted...just based on time constraints. But I agree that Dean should be in Purgatory for at least 3 episodes, and I actually wouldn't mind a few more. Think of the "Time After Time" episode and how well that went with the guys separated for most of the episode.

And yes, Sam working with Jodie would be great - just so it's not with Garth - I can't stand that guy. I agree so much about Sam doing all this by using his intelligence, hunting and research skills, and growing in his character as a result - in a positive way!

I am so hopeful for all the possibilities for S8; I just hope the faithful are not disappointed by a continuation of the mistakes made by Sera (especially) and Kripke by focusing on a single storyline instead of fleshing out BOTH major characters and letting them BOTH grow personally, face problems and overcome them, be the bad ass hunters we know they are by now, and fight the good fight, together when they can and separately when they have to. And continue to "be brothers again". ;) But more than anything, I hope and pray that Jeremy Carver realizes the gift he has in the person of Jensen Ackles and runs with it!!!!!!

I prefer a overall story-arc to MOTW episodes which probably would entail a Big Bad, but just so it is more threatening and interesting than what we just witnessed. Maybe overcoming what Crowley has planned would be enough - after all, he must have taken Kevin for a reason.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about the upcoming season. One way or the other, I'm in for the entire ride; right now more enthusiastic than I've been in a long time. Hope it's not in vain. Until next time...


Jun. 3rd, 2012 07:44 pm (UTC)
Yeah, there's a lot of possibilities to consider over the next five months (still hating that we have to wait until OCTOBER).

But more than anything, I hope and pray that Jeremy Carver realizes the gift he has in the person of Jensen Ackles and runs with it!!!!!!


Thank you for coming by and reading and sharing your thoughts! Don't be a stranger over the hellatus! :)
May. 25th, 2012 11:00 pm (UTC)
Thanks for your comments - I always enjoy reading your thoughts! I don't know what the deal was with the admitted lack of umph of the leviathan storyline. They really creaped me out as smart monsters (food additive subduing of their food source (i.e. us), curing diseases in their stock, making them fat for the slaughter, all the while hiding it all in plain site through infiltration of politics and monetary system), and I squeeked big time with the slaughter houses. I mean, how much more threat do we need? Still, they came across as flat, somehow. They seemed really big and bad at the beginning of the season when they put Dean and Sam out of action big time, and seemed to kill Cas. But really, how big and bad can a monster be if you only need some borax, a sharp machete, and a bag to carry the heads away in? The threat, and the tension, never did really build up as it should have. Also, the wonderfully bad Dick Roman was, IMO, TOO uniformly bad. The best monsters are the ones that make us like them despite all, like Crowley, the Trickster, even Lucifer. So, even well-acted, Dick was just someone that I was glad to see gone. So goodbye, Leviathans! Ooze out of spn, and let's go back to the MOTW!

Also, I have to say that I haven't enjoyed the emphasis on guest stars. I watch the show to see the story of Sam and Dean, not to see how some actor inserts themselves into the Sam and Dean universe. That aside, most the time the actors are good - I liked Garth the 2nd time around, Charlie was fun, Sherriff Mills great (Mills and Bobby made a great couple, didn't ya think?). It just seemed to me that the emphasis on the guest stars took away from the story lines...

Overall, season 7 was a good one in my book. I really appreciated the time they took to develop and resolve Sam's breakdown, and the reveal of Dean's gradual, painful fall into either despair and/or an alcoholic haze. I absolutely HATE that Bobby died, because I love the character and, damn it, the boys need somebody! But it was a good send-off, the ghost storyline was fun, and yes, Bobby's got some major anger issues (going all the way to childhood!), so I think the rapid conversion to angry spirit isn't too surprising. RIP, Bobby, you will be missed.

I hope that the long descent of Dean into despair that has developed over season 7 (actually, it's been going on since he's come back from hell), and a sort of revalation/ resurrection, will be the major arc of season 8. Maybe in purgatory Dean will finally find who he really is. The trip to purgatory was a surprise for me, but it's a good one! Lots of opportunities in this story line. Hopefully the writers of SPN will take full advantage!

Sam has seemed to have the attitude that he (Sam) has suffered enough to, if not erase, then excuse his past mistakes and overt crimes. This next season will test this attitude, for sure! It seems to me that Jared's acting chops have really, really improved over the last 2 seasons, so I think he's up for the challenge.

Overall, season 7 was pretty good, and I'm hoping that season 8 will be even better. Gaelic, I haven't had time to comment on all your epi reviews (real life stinks sometimes), but I have read them all (including comments!) and always look forward to the next one. Thanks so much, I look forward to your review of season 8, and to any additions you make to your wonderful spn fanfiction.

Jun. 3rd, 2012 07:47 pm (UTC)

Overall, season 7 was a good one in my book.

Agreed. :)

Thanks so much for taking time to read and share your thoughts -- and letting me know you've read the rambles!! When life allows, I totally love hearing from you, but I also get how it tends to get in the way. Darn life. ;)

I'll be posting stories this summer (if Life allows) and I very much look forward to seeing you.

Take care of you over the hellatus! :)
May. 26th, 2012 02:52 am (UTC)
Howdy Name Buddy!

Thanks for posting your thoughts on S7 and S8 (squee!). And don't worry about replying to comments. Real Life happens (and awesome blog posts too) and I understand about trying to hold of hellatus. This is my first full one since starting -- not sure on how I'll make it, but if everyone else is going through the same thing, obviously we'll make it.

And I know that it's probably overly-positive in some respects, but the bottom line is, I enjoy the show and the characters.

When I like something, I'm all in. There is no half way with me. So in liking (okay loving) Supernatural, I like every episode. Sure there are ones I didn't connect with as well, but it's part of a journey. Each one is a gift. I'm not overly critical, mostly I appreciate.

Personally, I really enjoyed season 7. It was the first season I saw not on DVD, so I appreciated the spacing and time to reflect before the next episode.

Having an enemy that the boys didn't know how to defeat was sort of refreshing (to me). Sometimes not having an answer for everything makes for a better story. But I do agree with you that the Levis were underwhelming as a whole. That being said, I liked the position they put Dean and Sam in...having to rely on each other.

Bobby...oh, Bobby. One redeeming part of the end of his story is that at the end he realized he was going dark side and vengeful and asked to be put to rest. My thought on this it would have been worse or harder for the boys to have to make the decision and burn the flask without Bobby knowing. They would have to live with that and carry the burden. Yes, it was horrible to have to burn the flask at all, but having Bobby know that he was on the wrong path and asking them to do it seemed better than blindsiding him.

Purgatory! I can't wait!

To be completely honest...I cried when Dean woke up there and Cas told him. But I can't explain how excited I am about it. The potential for greatness is huge.

Wish List

1. Bring back past supernaturals and monsters. Sure it would be fun for Dean to face new baddies, but wouldn't it be fun if old ones came back? I read one post-finale write up that mentioned Gordon which would be interesting.

2. The brothers acting as brothers I wish for that too.

3. Sam to get Dean (and Cas) out of Purgatory. This is his chance. When Dean went to Hell, Sam couldn't get him out and I think this situation was designed to give Sam a chance to redeem himself while showing what he's made of.

4. Cas to be useful. I refuse to think that the writers put them together by accident.

One little thing that keeps popping up in the back of my mind is when Dean and Cas are rescued from Purgatory will they be the only things to get out? Just a thought....

Thanks again for writing this and Rambling all season long! Hope to see you soon!

Jun. 3rd, 2012 07:50 pm (UTC)
Love your wish list for S8 (squee!). Agree agree agree.

And I love the idea that more than just Dean and Cas might escape from purgatory (only not more Leviathans, thanks).

Thanks so much for taking time to read and leave your thoughts. I'll 'see' you over the hellatus. :)
May. 26th, 2012 03:55 pm (UTC)
Okay. WORD!

Seriously. WORD TO THE MAX! I want to bundle all your suggestions up, tie them in a neat bow and send them priority pigeon, mail or pony express to Mr. Carver before next season gets rocking in the writer's room. AND!!! I want HIM TO HIRE YOU!!!!

Coz you know, WORD! Your vision for Season 8 is awesome and someone needs to reel the writer's in and give them more direction and continuity because dammit, WE WANT SHOW BACK IN A BIG WAY.. not this slow simmer of confusion and disappointment that we've had.

I agree with you in general about season 7 being better in the way the boys reconnected as brothers, and about the periphery characters and how I feel or don't feel about them. Let us hope Carver will have better ideas and more control over them.

Another wish I have for season 8; Jensen and Jared be given Producer's credits. Giving them more control over their characters would be, I think, a fantastic idea.

Okay. I'm done. Peace out and take care.


Edited at 2012-05-26 04:28 pm (UTC)
Jun. 3rd, 2012 07:51 pm (UTC)
Beard Dean!! Can you even IMAGINE?!? :) :) :)

You made me blush. Hee.

Thank you so much for reading and taking time to leave a comment. Don't be a stranger over the hellatus.

May. 26th, 2012 05:32 pm (UTC)
I had to think about this for a few days, because I didn't really know WHAT I wanted out of the show. I've finally figured it out. This is what I want:

I want their current situation to be dealt with, but not with a quick and easy fix that suddenly makes everything better.

At the same time, I don't want them to overload us so completely with darkness and despair that we are weighed down by the depression and angst. I want to keep hope in there.

That's it. That's what I want. Because I honestly can't fathom where they're going to take this, and I'm open to letting them tell their story without my interference, as long as the above two criteria are met:)

I hope you're having a fun time with your family!
Jun. 3rd, 2012 07:54 pm (UTC)
I agree with your criteria. I can't wait to see how they play everything out. Even though we HAVE to wait until OCTOBER. Not that I'm disgruntled or anything. ;)


Fan time was rather un-dramatic. So, that's good.

Can't wait to talk with you over the hellatus. :)
May. 26th, 2012 05:57 pm (UTC)
Wow, this. All of this. Even if we only get part of your wish list, I'd be pretty happy. Also, there's gotta be a way that we (your followers here) can help you get hired as part of the writing team for SPN, cuz seriously, your brain just works.

You've nailed a lot of the things I want in your lists, so I'm not going to bother putting them out there again. With everything that's probably going to be happening in S8, I'm just wondering if they'll try to finish out some of the lingering stories lines from S7 - such as Dean's drinking, and even the shift of crazy from Sam to Cas, especially considering Purgatory and the separation. I don't know if the Leviathans are going to be gone entirely, but I do hope they go soon. Let's focus on Crowley. But I suppose one can hope and only the end of the hellatius will tell!

The summer looks very long and drear without Supernatural, but hopefully the wait will pay off!

Take care and thanks for sharing your awesome thoughts!
Jun. 3rd, 2012 07:55 pm (UTC)
I would be giddy if even one thing I put on here came true. Hee. Also? You made me blush.

Thanks for reading and commenting. Hope to see you over here during the hellatus! :)
May. 28th, 2012 03:38 am (UTC)
Look at this. I’m posting a reply on a post that isn’t an episode rant. Go me! :)

I really like what you’ve added here and I agree with most of it, so I would just say some other stuff I have in mind. I had my mini rant at the end of my finale reply, about what I liked and didn’t like about season 7, but there’s an overall complaint I have about both previous seasons that is summarized beautifully by Laura Prudom of Huffington Post:

”I think that my main criticism with Season 7 as a whole -- and, in hindsight, with Season 6 too -- was an overall lack of focus. The ideas behind the Leviathans and Eve were good in theory, but in practice, there seemed to be too many standalone episodes to create a truly cohesive through-line from premiere to finale. When a season works as a whole, there need to be multiple unmissable episodes which deepen the mythology and drive the story forward, and looking back at Season 7, I feel like we could've watched the first two episodes of the season, "How To Win Friends and Influence Monsters," "Reading is Fundamental" and "Survival of the Fittest," ignored the rest, and still gotten the overall gist of the story.”

I have talked at length about my preference of mythology over MotW. But she says it better here (although IMO she should’ve added “The Born Again Identity” to that list.) It’s fine to have one-off episodes, but they usually have one or two scenes that tie in with the main story. Season 7’s MotW episodes were so self-contained I am skipping a large number of them in my rewatch with my dad (knowing he wouldn’t miss anything without them.)

But before I get too sidetracked by things I’ve already said I want to talk about the brotherly relationship and what got lost in the course of the last two seasons and then segue into why I became fond of Castiel. Like every hot blooded Supernatural fan when I watched the first five seasons I fell for the connection between Sam and Dean, especially Dean’s heroic, self-sacrificing behavior toward his brother. The heart of the show in those seasons were two things: a) Dean giving up everything for the love he had for his brother, b) Sam wanting to prove he didn’t need such cuddling.

At the end of season 5 it all came to a head. Dean made the ultimate sacrifice by facing two archangels and getting beaten to death by Lucifer to save Sam. Sam reaching his peak by being the sole being responsible for saving the world and proving that he could be a hero on his own. The story paid off.

Jun. 3rd, 2012 07:56 pm (UTC)
Go you! :) LOL!

Thanks for taking time to read and comment. I'm with you on the brother's bond being the glue that holds me to the show.
May. 28th, 2012 03:39 am (UTC)
This is why IMO the writers should’ve changed direction in season 6. We had had five seasons of protective!Dean, determined!Sam and if they wanted to keep the dance between these two alive they should’ve altered their dynamic. There was an easy solution because, aside from season 3, we hadn’t had a role reversal for these two, so it might have been a good idea to explore that. Have Dean be in a dire situation trying to prove he could handle things on his own and have Sam be the protector. I’m confident had the writers tried that they would’ve kept the connection going. Instead they went for rehashing the same formula with the addition of some glaring misfires like making Dean domestic and Sam soulless. As a result heart of the show got damaged.

At the same time another story emerged, that of the relationship between Dean and Castiel. I don’t extend this to everyone but with the failure the Dean-Sam bond, at some point in season 6, I got sucked into that other storyline and decided to focus on Castiel. I think this is partly why there is such an intense love for his character by some fans as well as intense hate from the others. There are a million reasons to like him but most of his fans like him in conjunction with his relationship to Dean. On the other hand, those who hate him perhaps notice that the rise of his popularity coincides with the fading of the Sam and Dean relationship and blame him for it. They also blame fans like me who didn’t stay with the brothers (and like them endlessly complained about the portrayal of the relationship) and think we replaced Sam with Castiel. But the truth is that for me it was a question of where the better storyline was. If the writers do something exciting with Sam and Dean in season 8 instead of trying the worn out “Dean worries about vulnerable Sam” formula, I’ll cheer for their team again. If they don’t and decide to do something exciting with Dean and Cas instead (like they tried in the past two seasons) I’ll be TeamCas This applies to any mythology they choose for that season, including your idea of hunting solo monsters and getting their lives back on the track. . I hope my explanation is enough to prove that I’m not a bad fan for not wanting the show to be about the brothers.

Jun. 3rd, 2012 07:59 pm (UTC)
But the truth is that for me it was a question of where the better storyline was.

I hope with new show leadership, they can find a storyline that satisfies a lot of people. Maybe it's not an either or -- maybe it's new. But in any case, I hope the majority of the people are happy with it.

And in my opinion, there's no such thing as a bad fan. Your thoughts are valid -- even if they don't coincide with others. The brotherly bond may have been what drew you to it, but along with the boys and the story itself, you changed through circumstance and it's fine that you now find Dean's bond with Cas to be the more intriguing storyline.

Takes all colors to make a rainbow. ;)

Hope to 'see' you over the hellatus!
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