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Stream of Consciousness, Epi 9.15

Hmmmm...



So, you guys know that these streams of consciousness reviews are my honest thoughts; I don't spin for the sake of a positive reaction and I'm typically always enthusiastic about our show. You also know that I watch for the story, without agenda, enjoying what's given to us for the sake of the characters we love and the hero that has become my muse.

That said, I feel I might disappoint some of you with my honesty tonight...but rambling any other way wouldn't be fair. And…this first part might be a bit long, causing me to summarize the actual recap after the lists.


Now, before you jump to the conclusion that I didn’t like the episode, don’t. I actually really enjoyed the majority of it.

I had moments I loved, and moments I liked just as I always do, and I’ll list that below. The premise of the storyline was really intriguing with the Thinman in the photos and the bad guy turning out to be human. I really enjoyed seeing Ed and Harry again; I actually like the Ghostfacers and their innocent (if a bit irreverent) excitement over the supernatural. And Holy Lord of the Rings – they are the only guest stars still alive from Season 1!


The surplus of quick-witted one-liners and pop culture references had me chuckling (and figuring that the gag reel will be chock-full of stuff because how…HOW does one say all of that with a straight face?? Or listen to it with zero reaction as Sam and Dean did??); other scenes had me rubbing my heart.

I actually really liked the whole thing. Right up to Ed’s confession. And then it just sank me.

The heavy-handed way the writers decided to overlay Ed and Harry’s situation with Dean and Sam’s just had me shaking my head. As a group, we're intelligent viewers. We don't need the pain pointed out to us with no resolution between a different set of characters to help us understand what's going on. Not only that, but while the reactions and conversations were almost identical to what Dean and Sam were going through, the situation was totally different and the simplification of it made what the boys were dealing with seem completely unimportant.

And it is important. It needs to be dealt with, learned from, and remembered. And then it needs to not happen again. But if the writers are just going to boil it all down to it being about secrets and lies, we aren’t going to get too far away from it. I guess I just didn’t appreciate the anvil that landed on my head with the break-up of the Ghostfacers running so closely parallel to what our boys were dealing with.

I mean, they may as well have had Harry say, “If only Ed would say the words I’m sorry to me and admit everything he did was done for selfish purposes then I could forgive him and we can be friends again.” To me, it felt very unsubtly going in that direction by the time Harry climbed in the back seat of the Impala.

Yes, Ed lied. Dean lied. Yes, Harry was betrayed, Sam was betrayed. There are some things you can forgive and some things you can’t. We get all that. The question is, what can Sam and Dean forgive? And when will they be allowed to do so?

Maybe I’m just too invested in our show, I don’t know. Feel free to throw (virtual) rotten tomatoes at me if you want. But to me, Dean and Sam’s situation isn’t that simple. It’s not just about secrets kept or lies told – if that were true, then all of this would have happened back in Season 4 when Sam kept a big ol’ secret from Dean and continually lied about it until he realized he was out of road.

This is about more than a choice being taken away or a desperate brother doing the only thing he knows to do. This is about two brothers who have depended on each other all their lives to play certain roles and those roles are breaking down because of the weight the world has placed on them. Dean needs to protect Sam; it’s been his one job since he could form memories. And Sam? Until recently, I think Sam needed to be saved – or at least know that no matter what he did, Dean would be there, coming after him.

Sam sees what’s broken in their relationship and if he wants it fixed, he has to spell it out for Dean. Because from Dean’s point of view, he did what he thought was right at the time: he saved his brother. And Dean needs to spell out why he saved Sam. Because from Sam’s point of view, all Dean was doing was controlling the situation so that he wouldn’t be alone.

I know we all have varying opinions about this current rift in the brother’s relationship. Some opinions are stronger than others, granted, but none are more or less valid than another’s. My “slant” has always been toward Dean. As the oldest of five, I feel like I often see his justification quite clearly. For example, the fact that Dean hasn’t actually apologized to Sam for tricking him into allowing Gadreel to possess him – and in fact saying if faced with the same situation, he would do it again.

I can understand that; the way he sees it, his actions saved his brother’s life. Not only is that his ground, but before Sam started to be influenced by the trials the last thing he told Dean was that he was going to complete them to live, rather than allow Dean to complete them to die. Sam choosing to die seemed incomprehensible to Dean, who had spent his entire life making sure that situation did not happen – and in fact went to Hell to reverse Sam’s death once before. He would rather spend eternity being tortured – alone, I might add – than have Sam die.

As a mom and as someone who basically raised two of her siblings, the I did what I knew was right for you, damn the consequences attitude is one that resonates for me. Right or wrong.

Dean feels grief over what happened as a result of his actions – the death of Kevin, the broken trust, the rift between him and Sam. He feels grief that everything turned out so horribly. He feels grief that he can’t make it right. But he doesn’t feel grief about his actions; not yet anyway. He can’t afford to. Because if he says that he was wrong to trick Sam into saying ‘yes’ to Gadreel, then that means he was wrong in saving Sam and he can’t fathom that. A world without Sam in it is not a world Dean wants to live in.

Somehow, Sam needs to help his brother understand that it was the fact that he decided for Sam that he can’t forgive (yet) and not the fact that Dean saved his life. That is the thing Sam won’t do for Dean – take his choice away. Sam hasn’t been clear about that with Dean, though, and the longer he goes without saying it, the more Dean is going to pull away, inside of himself, and the harder it will be to get “them” back.

If, in fact, that’s what Sam wants. After what he said to Harry about forgiveness, I’m not sure what Sam wants. I want “them” back…but maybe this is one of those things Sam just can’t forgive. I have a sibling I love dearly and would be there for in a minute if she needed me…but she’s hurt me bad enough in our past that I can’t forgive her. I can’t let it go. I don’t trust her and I am not close to her. Doesn’t stop me from loving her, but we’re…blood. We’re not family. And I can see why Sam might go in that direction.

I would hate it for the sake of our show and the connection these brothers have created that I – and many fans, it seems – have come to depend on, but maybe that’s where Sam is heading: polite camaraderie replacing genuine affection. *rubs heart* I would be very sad if that’s what happened, but it wouldn’t be a far stretch for me to see it.

If anything comes from this slathering on of symbolic look – same thing happened to these guys and they broke up scenario we watched tonight, I hope it’s that a trigger is pulled for the boys. Some kind of catalyst that makes them realize that they didn’t break up, they’re still together, still keeping each other alive, still reading each other’s signals. That has to mean something, right?

Okay, if you’re still with me after that gigantic dump of feeeeeeelings, I have some lists for you.

LOVED:

  • Shots of the Impala roaring down the road – especially on the way to WA. There is just something about that sound and the sight of that old Chevy tearing up the blacktop that makes me smile.

  • Dean’s, “Son of a bitch” when they saw the Ghostfacers van.

  • Dean’s completely dead expression when Harry said, “Uh…both?” in the diner.

  • “You’re so money right now.”

  • The whole scene when the brothers discussed how Sam jumping off the shed dressed as Batman would have gone viral, if they still had the vid. Their soft, shared smiles, the easy way they bounced through the details of the memory, the way Dean’s face just relaxed when he recalled taking Sam to the ER on his handlebars…it was a perfect moment. I kinda want to hang onto that for a while.

  • “Lucky for us, I’m really good at marbles.”

  • The look the boys shared when they were cuffed: Dean distracting the baddies while Sam still worked to pick his lock.

  • Sam’s terrified, “DON’T!” when the ‘Thinman’ nearly cut Dean’s throat.

LIKED:

  • Having the Ghostfacers back. Because, seriously.

  • The fact that Dean referred to the Ghostfacers van as the “Mystery Machine” and Ed caught the bad-guy saying it was “Scooby-Doo time.” I detect a theme….

  • “Don’t try to use science with me!”

  • The fact that both brothers had their own laptops and researched their own angles until it was clear one didn’t pan out. I liked the very detective-like way they approached this.

  • The fact that the baddie wasn’t supernatural this time around.

  • “You crashed the Jenga tower of our lives.”

  • “Sam, make him stop.”

No MEH’s this time around. Pretty much captured that in the opening part.

QUESTIONS:

  • What was that song Casey was listening to at the beginning? You guys know me and music. I even used my SoundHound app, but…nada.

  • Is this the 3rd or 4th episode since Dean got the Mark of Cain that we haven’t seen anything happen because of it? I’m ready for something to start up there.

  • Did anyone else find the hotel room décor totally distracting? I kept pulling focus to that hunter image on the wallpaper behind whoever was standing in the room.

  • Do we have a break next week? I didn’t watch the previews, but www.tv.com lists the next episode as being on the 18th. With 11 weeks until the May 20th finale and only 7 episodes left, we’re due for a couple breaks, just wasn’t sure if it was next week or not…?

THEN was basically Ghostfacer reminder and how the boys are “strictly business now” because Sam thinks Dean saved him for him, not for Sam. NOW we’re in Springdale, Washington and a teenaged girl, Casey Smiles, is playing music and taking selfies in her room. She hears a noise, but dismisses it, going back to her picture taking until she checks her pics and sees behind her the creepiest image ever: a man without a face.

The lights go out, she panics, hides in her closet, and calls 911…only she can’t tell the operator her location because she can sense someone behind her and as the camera cuts away, Casey’s scream is cut off by slicing and we see blood pour out of the slats in the closet. Spooky. Also…gross.

Back in the bunker, Sam’s at the library table messing around on his laptop when Dean swings by the archway with a bag in his hand and says he’ll be back. Surprised, Sam’s like, where are you going? Dean says he caught a case and he’s heading to Washington.

Sam: You want me to come with?

Dean: Do you…want to come?

Sam: On a hunt? Why wouldn’t I?

Dean (looking genuinely at a loss as to what is the right thing to say or do at this point): I don’t know, man. ‘Cause lately with you up is down and down is sideways. I…I don’t know what you want.

Sam sighs like why is this so hard for you to understand?

Though, as I said, I’m not sure why he expects different. He knows his brother. Dean’s not going to just figure out his subtle hints and slightly cryptic honesty. He needs Sam to tell him what it is he’s not getting.

Dean: Fine. You want in? Sure thing.

He approaches the table, visibly downshifting into “just business” mode and tells Sam about the pic of Casey that leaked onto the internet. Killed in her room, doors and windows locked, creepy-assed figure behind her. Dean things its ghost caught on film. Sam starts to pack up his laptop.

Dean: So…you’re coming?

Sam: Does it look like I’m staying?

Sheesh boys. Snappish much?

The Impala roars down the road and the boys show up in their FBI Agent personnas at the girl’s home (and even 9 years later it cracks me up that people buy FBI Agents driving a 1967 Chevy Impala) and talk to her mom. While Sam talks to the mom about if she saw any fritzing lights or TV, Dean subtly checks the room for EMF…and then the mom says she hasn’t felt and cold spots either.

Dean’s like – hrm?

She tells them about the “supernaturalists” who called her and since the police have no explanation, she felt she owed it to them to listen. This leads the boys to where Ed and Harry of Ghostfacers faux-fame are having breakfast in a diner. The boys’ confrontation is less than friendly, and the witting back-and-forth between Ed, Harry, and a very stern-slash-grumpy Dean was a bit too quick for my jet-lag addled brain.

I did like Ed’s beard, though. And the fact that Harry had a pretty ex-girlfriend that he was angsting over.

Ed/Harry: Oh. The Winchesters. Yay…says nobody ever.

As Dean is telling them to get into the Mystery Machine and skeedaddle, there’s a random scene where a waiter at the diner gets a public dressing down by the owner of the diner, but then we shift back to the foursome where Harry is saying that they don’t scare them, and lifts his sweatshirt to show the butt of a gun sticking out of his waistband.

Dean: Am I supposed to be impressed with that treasure trail or that lady gun you got hiding in your, uh, pants, there?

Harry: Uh…both?

Dean’s. Face. Total, dead-eye, Martin Riggs expression right there. Hilarious! *laugh*

Sam quietly observes while Dean tries threats and insults, but when Dean says that he just sees a couple of fame whores pointing a camera at a mom who just lost her kid, his face pulled into a frown, Sam reacts to that, looking at his brother with something like a flash of sympathy. Like this might be about more for Dean than just marking his territory.

Dean says they’re going to get in their way; Sam says they’re going to get someone else killed.

Harry: Oh, my God, Menudo, relax. We know what we’re doing.

Hee. Menudo. *smiles*

Dean: Where’s the rest of the Bad News Bears?

Ed: We dropped them. They were dead weight.

Harry: But they’re still alive.

Ed: Totally alive.

Dean says a ghost will kill them in minutes and Harry’s like, haha, that’s where you’re wrong. He tells them, “Amazon me, bitches!” and I totally didn’t get it until, like, right now – he was talking about their book. As in look them up on Amazon. *laughs* I spent a good part of the episode going, “What the hell does Amazon have to do with the Thinman?” I was thinking giant women, to be honest.

Go ahead. Laugh. I did.

Dean says he’ll shoot them, and the brothers leave.

Harry: 50 Shades of way too much protein.

Back at the motel, Dean’s shrugging off his suit coat and Sam’s already on the laptop looking up the Ghostfacers website. He discovers that Ed and Harry wrote a book called “The Skinny on the Thinman” and said the legend started on the ‘net.

Dean isn’t buying any of this, but Sam’s arguing the point, saying thousands of people have (claimed to have) seen it. Dean’s like, thousands of people see Elvis, too. He’s still going with the ghost theory and argues that the veil is all kinds of screwed right now – could be the reason for all the sightings of the same ghost. So, while Sam keeps digging into the Thinman theory, Dean decides use his own laptop to see if any local deaths could be candidates for ghosts.

Meanwhile, Harry and Ed are filming in Casey’s room. Ed is uncharacteristically subdued and says he doesn’t want his knees blown off by Sam and Dean…maybe they should leave. Harry, though, is all about finding the Thinman – besides who are Sam and Dean anyway? They don’t even have a Twitter account. Ed and Harry are going to find the Thinman and make all the haters eat their words.

They start recoding and Ed is inside the closet, then steps out all melodramatic, saying, “The bedroom of a teenage girl is meant for two things: giggles and joy…until one night the Thinman turned giggles into blooooood.”

Harry: You are so money right now.

He starts talking about how this is going to pay off in woman and his metaphor of a snorkel and swimming in…well, women, is interrupted by Mrs. Smiles bringing them lemonade.

Back in the hotel, Dean hasn’t found anything that screams GHOST to him and Sam talks through more Thinman stuff, but says most of it looks pretty fake – except Casey’s. Dean rubs tired eyes, trying to figure out how the pic of Casey’s got onto the web in the first place.

They head to the police station and are told that the sheriff is on a hunting trip (which immediately had me flashing to “…and he hasn’t been back in a few days…”). The Deputy gives them the box of evidence and they see that Casey’s phone is cracked. The report says that the 911 call went dead at 11:59 and the pic was posted at 2am. Curiouser and curiouser.

Just then, the Deputy tells them that the Ghostfacers have already been by and gave him a copy of their books – prompting Dean to exit stage left in disgust. Sam sorta tries to stop him, but then lets him go.

Deputy: Not a fan?

Death the 2nd comes when the diner owner is cashing out that night, hears a knock on the window, sees nothing, then turns on his security camera where he sees the Thinman flash by the camera in the alley seconds before it’s standing behind him…and then it slashes his throat. Blech.

Next morning, Agents Sam and Dean show up at the crime scene to talk to the Deputy and see that Ed and Harry are already there, filming the dead body. Sam asks the Deputy for the security footage while Dean goes to chase of the ‘Facers.

Harry: You gonna out me “agent”?

After trying to get them to leave, Dean asks if they turned the lore of the Thinman into a tulpa. But Ed says the lore changes from blog to blog, so not a tulpa.

Dean: Do either of you know what the Thinman is?

Harry: No, we just play supernaturalists on TV. It’s part man…part tree…some say it emerged from the nightmare of an autistic boy—

Dean: Okay, so no clue then.

The Deputy calls them over and they see the Thinman on the camera in the parking lot then immediately after, killing the diner owner. Dean concedes that maybe it’s not a ghost and the ‘Facers hurry out of there to…do their thing. That night, they discover that someone posted the diner footage on their blog and Harry decides to put his ninja outfit on (ha!). He is going to find the Thinman – in the woods, obvi.

Ed wants to leave it to the professionals, but Harry’s like, we are the professionals.

In the motel, Sam and Dean are noshing on burgers, fries, and beer while looking at the laptops and see that the vid of the diner guy getting killed has already been posted. Sam’s like, when I think teleporting, he thinks Cross Roads Demon. Dean’s like…a demon that likes to stab and watch YouTube…stranger things have happened.

Sam’s amazed and a little sickened that the vid has so many hits already. Dean’s like, people will watch because people are sick.

Sam: When did ‘viral’ go from baby chimp falling out of a tree to killer candid camera?

Dean (with a little grin): Y’know what video would have gone viral, if we still had it. When you were 5 and you dressed up as Batman and you jumped off the shed ‘cause you thought you could fly.

Sam (matching his grin): After you jumped first!

Dean: Hey, I was nine and I was dressed up like Superman. Everybody knows Batman can’t fly.

Sam: I didn’t know! I broke my arm!

Dean (smile widening as memory blooms): I drove you to the ER on my handlebars.

Picture that, how about. A kid on his Huffy, dressed like Superman, peddling like the wind while a little Batman sits on the handlebars, balanced against him, cradling his arm. Or how about when they got to the ER? I can just see the ER nurses faces when a pint-sized Superman walks in carrying a smaller, crying Batman. *laugh* It’s their lives, encapsulated right there in that memory.

They laugh a little and Dean takes a swallow of his beer saying, “Good times.”

Sam’s smile fades and he looks so, so sad – at what they had, at that they don’t have – and says, “Yeah, they were.”

Just then, Ed knocks on the door, barely waiting for Dean to open it as he walks in. He says he has to tell them something, and then the case is theirs.
Meanwhile, interspersed with Ed’s confession is Harry, alone in the woods, searching for the Thinman with his camera.

Harry: A man could lose his marbles being so close to the blade of doom. Luckily for us, I’m really good at marbles.

Ed is rambling about the Ghostfacer history and the other ‘Facers leaving and says that Harry was going to leave, too, so he had to give him a reason to stay. He made up the Thinman. He faked one case and it just…blew up. It was awesome to have such a following, and without the Thinman, they’re just guys. If he tells Harry, he’ll leave.

Sam: If you don’t tell him, he’s gonna leave anyway! Trust me, here. Secrets ruin relationships.

Dean glances over at him, silent. Sam has more than one reason to know that’s true. He’s kept a few whoppers in his time and has been forgiven, though the marks left behind were big enough they fell into them and the secrets regenerated. Dean’s secret isn’t the first hurdle of betray they’ve had to overcome. It’s just the latest.

Ed: I’ll tell him when the time is right.

Dean: Time’s right now, Chief.

Ed tells them that Harry’s not actually there…he’s searching for the Thinman in the woods. Sam about comes unglued – the Thinman has killed two people! Ed thinks he dropped Harry off in a basically safe part of the woods, but, as we see, that’s not true. The Thinman finds Harry and manages to cut him pretty good before Harry runs away.

He gets to the parking lot just as the Impala pulls up. Sam and Dean get out and see the blood on his side. Harry wavers, nearly going down before the boys hurry over to catch him. Sam wraps Harry’s side and Harry’s all, “Yeah, that’s good. You can just staple it when we get back to the motel.”

Sam gives him an okay, tough guy look. Harry is all, the Thinman is real! And the boys stare down Ed. SO…back at the motel, Ed confesses. Do you see what I saw? Or am I just too sensitive about our boys?

Harry: You crashed the Jenga tower of our lives! I was going to get married! I left her to run around with you living some lie!

Ed: At least we’re living it together.

Harry: Seriously?!

Ed: I saved you!

Harry: Saved me from what? Living a nice life? Not getting stabbed? How selfish can you be?

Ed: You can call her.

Harry: It’s too late b/c she has some guy’s arm wrapped around her and [her Facebook relationship status] it’s complicated.

Ed: We can just keep it going – for the fans! They’ll never know.

Harry: I’ll know. You made a chump out of me, man.

Ed: We can get through this. We just de-bunk the Thinman and go back to Ghostfacers.

Harry: I can’t. I can’t trust you anymore, Ed.

Ed: I get it; you’re pissed. You don’t mean what you’re saying. Just tell me what you need.

He says he’s going to get coffee and runs into Sam outside, unable to say anything. Sam goes inside to check on Harry.

Harry: I just got punched in the feels.

Me: Dude. Preaching to the choir. I’ve felt like that for the last three episodes.

Harry: None of it was real, and now he wants me to pretend like this is something I can get past.

Sam: I know what you mean. There are things you can forgive and there are things you can’t.

Harry: Which one is this?

Sam: You have to figure that out for yourself.

Dean comes in then and tells Sam that he got a lead on the tire tracks he found out by where Harry got stabbed. They leave the room and Dean tells him that it’s a 1989 Geo Metro, and with such a small town, it’s registered to a guy named Roger who works night security at a mill on the northside of town.

Now they’re really confused – it teleported, but it has a job and a car? They decide to go check out the mill. Ed is listening and he takes the coffees back in the room to Harry, saying that he doesn’t want to be a jellyfish spine anymore. He wants to make it right. Harry says they’ll make it right.

Out at the mill, the Deputy (who had apparently been so helpful with the information about the Geo) meets Sam and Dean and Dean tells him to stay back (thinking to keep him safe) as they go inside, which puts him in the perfect position to tase the boys from behind. OUCH.

They wake handcuffed to chairs – Dean’s in front and Sam’s behind him. Which, I thought was interesting. The Deputy is setting up a camera in front of Dean, and positioning a backdrop that looks like trees behind him, humming “Zippity-do-da” the whole time.

Dean: So you’re the Thinman? That would make sense if it didn’t look like you just ate a fat camp.

The Deputy keeps humming.

Dean (pained): Sam, make him stop.

Sam: So, what’s the deal? What are you? A demon?

The Deputy laughs at that and tells them that it was a team effort. He, of course, falls into the same Bad Guy Trap all baddies do in the last 15 mins of the episode called, “I’m totally confident that I’m going to successfully kill you so I don’t mind spending extra minutes telling you how I pulled off all my killings so that you don’t die wondering and I can brag to a captive audience.”

The Thinman comes in and pulls of his mask – it’s the waiter from the diner! And he would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren’t for these meddling kids!
Dean sees the body of the sheriff off behind one of the curtains – which makes three deaths. The diner owner was apparently a dick, Casey wouldn’t go out with Roger (the Thinman), and the Sheriff didn’t give his Deputy time off. Okay then! Roger was the psycho, the Deputy the “visionary” but they were both buckets of crazy, you ask me.

The two gang up on Dean, calling him “pretty boy” and rambling about how he doesn’t know what it’s like to be invisible, blah blah blah. Dean catches Sam’s eye and they have an entire conversation in a glance, Dean keeping the two distracted while Sam continues to try to pick the lock of his cuffs.

Dean: What you’re doing doesn’t make you the Thinman; it makes you copycat killers.

They get tired of talking and declare it showtime! Sam’s still working on his cuffs, not yet freed. The Thinman pulls on his mask and goes behind Dean, pulling out the knife. He brings the knife to Dean’s throat. Dean tenses, but doesn’t say a word.

Sam bellows out a terrified, “DON’T!” but there’s a noise off behind them. Roger and the Deputy duct tape the brother’s mouths and go investigate.

Of course it’s Ed and Harry. They split up and Harry once more confronts the Thinman, who kicks him in the crotch – OUCH. Before the Thinman can use his knife, though, Ed puts the barrel of his gun against his back and demands that he take off his mask…just as the Deputy bashes Ed on the head.

Well, that went well.

Ed and Harry are hauled into the room with the camera, the Deputy babbling about Frankenstein and the creator being offed by his creation, when they discover that the boys have gotten free. Sam and Dean jump the baddies, there’s a brief rumble and Roger ends up stabbing himself with his own knife as he fights with Dean. The Deputy grabs his gun and points it at Sam and in a burst of amazing bravery and selflessness, Ed jumps in front of Sam saying it was all his fault.

Deputy: I got enough bullets for both of you.

But just then, Harry shoots the Deputy, killing him and saving Ed and Sam. Dean gently takes the gun from Harry’s frozen grip, seeing that Harry is in a bit of shock at having shot a person.

Outside, later, Dean is loading the Impala’s trunk with stuff, telling Sam that he positioned everything inside so that it would look like those two psychos offed each other.

Sam: They were just people. Not demons or monsters. Just…friggin’…people.

Dean: Like I said, people are sick.

And I think Sam was wrong. They weren’t his definition of monsters…but they were monsters all the same. Which is why Dean overpowering and making Roger stab himself didn’t trouble me too greatly.

Over a bit away from the Impala, but still within earshot, Harry and Ed are talking.

Ed: Are we…cool?

Harry: I don’t think we ever will be.

Sam and Dean look over at them.

Ed: We made it right, though. We got a shot to start the old Ghostfacers again.

Harry: I came here to finish this thing with you – not close a chapter, close the whole book.

Ed: But you saved my life back there.

Harry: I killed a guy, Ed!

Ed: He was a bad guy, Harry.

Harry: He was a guy, Ed. Too many people have died because of your crap.

Ed: I’ve done all of this for us. I don’t know why you don’t see that.

Harry: No…you did this for you.

The boys are watching silently and I’m wincing inside, just writing this.

Harry: There’s a lot of things I can forgive, but this isn’t one.

Ed: What does this mean about us?

Harry: It means…it’s complicated.

He walks over to the Impala and asks for a ride. Dean says sure and they drive away, leaving poor Ed standing alone, tears in his eyes. *rubs heart*
The boys drive through the night and Dean looks up in the rear view mirror, asking Harry if he’s okay. I thought that was telling. He went from “I will shoot you” to “are you okay” in the course of an episode.

Harry: No. You roll with a guy so many years you start to think he’s always gonna be next to you. Like when you’re old on a porch, he’ll be in the other rocking chair. And then something happens and you realize that other chair is empty. Y’know what I mean?

Dean does that thing where he looks hit in the solar plexus – like he wants to say something, has his mouth open, even, to say something, but he can’t. Sam just looks very, very sad. Neither of them say anything as the screen goes dark.

So…which is it going to be, boys? Something unforgivable? An empty rocking chair? Or a way to work through this, define what’s broken, find a way to fix it? Will this be a catalyst to start a change or will this be the foreshadowing for what is to come?

I am going to miss our Ghostfacers. I loved their quirky approach to life. But I suppose no one gets out of this life unscathed. There is much scathing going on with these two. Not sure if we’ll see them again or if they’ll find a way to make up in their webisodes. I just want whatever point the writers are trying to make with this to be clear, be made, and be done in the next couple of episodes.

And I really hope they lean toward getting “them” back. I miss our boys being our boys without the held breath between them.

Thanks for reading, as always. Hope I didn’t disappoint you too much. And if you choose to comment, I will do my best to respond to all of them this go-round.

See you after the next epi!

Slainte!      

Comments

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jennygeee
Mar. 5th, 2014 08:02 am (UTC)
Not sure if I'm going to read this this week Gaelic, I really enjoyed the episode and don't want to bring my feelings down, so I think I'll give this one a miss just be reading your first few words. Hope you don't mind :))
gaelicspirit
Mar. 5th, 2014 08:07 am (UTC)
Reading it totally voluntary! :) As I say in the ramble, everyone has opinions about this 'rift' with the brothers, some stronger that others, but none are more or less valid than others.

I enjoyed the episode as well - there were quite a few great moments to include in my loves and likes list. But it's totally your call if you want to read or not and I can respect not wanting someone's less than completely thrilled opinion bringing yours down. :)

No squee-harshing here.
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amberdreams
Mar. 5th, 2014 08:21 am (UTC)
Yup to your grouches with this episode (though you put it much clearer than I did in my instant reaction post which is somewhat garbled). I have SO many problems with this episode despite, like you, sitting through most of it with a little smile and a chuckle now and then. Talk about heavy handed, geeze. And I came out of it not even knowing what their actual point was, in spite of them beating me around the head with it.

WHEN are we going to get the story moving again? What about the Mark? I'm betting a good proportion of people watching the show will have totally forgotten it exists by now.

I'm getting so frustrated at the moment and no episode next week doesn't help. On that front, I'm assuming we will have another mini hiatus over Easter too. Bummer.
gaelicspirit
Mar. 12th, 2014 01:37 pm (UTC)
Ah, you're probably right about a mini-hiatus over Easter. I hadn't thought about that. Though, it works out okay for me if that's true because I have to travel back to IN that weekend as it's the 1st anniversary of my father's passing.

If they stay true to form, with 7 episodes left, I'm willing to bet the next couple are about the Mark, then a couple of MotW epis that hint at the Mark, and the last three should be Mark-centric leaving us totally hanging for a resolution of several plotlines at the end so that we're tortured all summer. ;)

I just know that if it's not going to be resolved this season, I would like to see some HOPE for resolution at least. I want them to be enjoyable to watch again. Because right now, every moment of enjoyment is tinged by this shadow of sadness knowing that they're both hurting inside and it's by something that is entirely within their control to fix. :(

Thanks for reading and commenting! See you next week?
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palomacal
Mar. 5th, 2014 10:49 am (UTC)
Amen to everything you said.

I don't loose hope because of little things that have been said or done like mama Trans saying that she has to protect his son as long as she can, Kevin saying that his mom is his responsability, Sam doubting when going back to his room after that, both of them remembering "good times", Sam realising he could loose his brother for good at the warehouse, thinking about the empty rocking chair with grief instead of jumping to say "yes I can see that"... Maybe it's just wishful thinking.

I really, really hope that when they get to talk it won't only come to I'm sorry, you were right, I did it for me, (Dean was thinking too hard by the trunk at the end when listening to Harry saying it to Ed) because even if there is some true to that (I'm not going to deny it) there's so much more that needs to be adressed. I want Dean to apoligize but I want Sam to do it too. The comparison between the ghostfacers and Sam and Dean just felt cheap. I'm honestly tired of "there are things that can't be forgiven", like what? nearly beating your brother to death in a motel and choosing a demon over him? Sorry, I forgot, he was forgiven. I hope Sam just wants his brother to tell him I'm sorry, I shouldn't have forced that on you but I seriously hope that Dean also gets to say that the rest is not true, that there are hundreds of things he did for his brother that hurt himself but that he did anyways like this tiny, tiny little thing like letting him jump in the pit and leaving him "alone". I still think that I don't see the point of most of the hurtful things Sam said. I blame that on bad writers and not the plot. And I'll say it again, compairing the brother's lifes with marrying the wrong girl feels cheap not only for Dean but definetily for Sam too.


I must say I liked the episode but it's starting to make me feel depressed. It used to cheer me up seeing the relationship of these two brothers and now I'm starting to dread the next chapter and their talk or not talk.

Just a couple more things:

“I’m totally confident that I’m going to successfully kill you so I don’t mind spending extra minutes telling you how I pulled off all my killings so that you don’t die wondering and I can brag to a captive audience.” You made me laugh there.

Is this the 3rd or 4th episode since Dean got the Mark of Cain that we haven’t seen anything happen because of it? I’m ready for something to start up there. I agree. First because shouldn't Sam be more worried about it? and second because as you said …but they were monsters all the same. Which is why Dean overpowering and making Roger stab himself didn’t trouble me too greatly it didn't trouble me either but it ticked me off that I don't remember Dean killing some human so "coldly", I'm assuming he is kinda accepting he's just a killer and that he is definetily doomed because of the Mark and all. We'll see in two weeks according to the promo.

Anyway, you made me delurk again. I'm starting to get addicted.
gaelicspirit
Mar. 12th, 2014 01:46 pm (UTC)
I'm liking this new addiction of yours. Delurk anytime. ;)

I agree with you. Even if Dean did apologize it wouldn't fix anything. Sure, he might come to the realization that Sam was right: he should not have taken Sam's choice away and he might say the words "I'm sorry" around that topic...but how does that "fix" the fact that Sam's pissed Dean would willingly do anything to save Sam's life -- including sacrifice himself? How does that fix the fact that Sam said something so completely untrue about Dean only being willing to sacrifice if he wasn't the one being hurt?

These two have much more going on than a simple "you're right, I'm wrong" apology is going to fix and the only way to get over that is to just go through it. To talk through it. Because they very obviously need each other as hunting partners and they very obviously care about what happens to each other as human beings. Being brothers again is the next hurdle....

I just know that if it's not going to be resolved this season, I would like to see some HOPE for resolution at least. I want them to be enjoyable to watch again. Because right now, every moment of enjoyment is tinged by this shadow of sadness knowing that they're both hurting inside and it's by something that is entirely within their control to fix. :(

As for the Mark's effect being the reason he killed the killer instead of taking him to the authorities...I can see that having an influence on him because we know Dean, and because of the way Jensen flawlessly plays Dean. But it was literally the only subtle thing on the episode and while we, as intelligent viewers, might not need it spelled out for us, if they're going to spell out everything else, they can't hem and haw around that. It's critical.

/writing rant

Thanks for reading and delurking to comment. Hope to see you again! :)
jj1564
Mar. 5th, 2014 12:01 pm (UTC)
You always hit the nail on the head for me, this is exactly how I felt - 'while the reactions and conversations were almost identical to what Dean and Sam were going through, the situation was totally different and the simplification of it made what the boys were dealing with seem completely unimportant.' Sam and Dean have been together for so long, they have lied to each other and saved each other countless times. The 'Batman and Superman' story was the best bit, it really brought home how dependent they are on each other, because there is no one else who remembers them as children, who knows what they were like and their history. Very lonely.

Overall, I'm not a Ghostfacers fan and felt this was a real 'filler' episode. It didn't progress the story and just dwelt in a very heavy-handed way on the boys continuing isolation from each other and they both look so depressed, enough already! Time to move the story along and find out what the Mark of Cain means to Dean.




gaelicspirit
Mar. 18th, 2014 01:24 am (UTC)
Yep, most definitely ready for some Mark of Cain action. Thanks for reading and commenting. Sorry I'm replying right under the wire this time. I swear the days are shrinking on me!

See you soon!
qultng1
Mar. 5th, 2014 12:53 pm (UTC)
There were a lot of groaners for me this time; like the blatant comparison of what Ed and Harry were going thru and what Dean and Sam are going thru. I think the writers oversimplified the situation and minimalized it.

It was hard for me to AJ as Ed this time because of the haircut and after seeing him on Justified as a sociopathic killer for so many weeks. There wasn't much they could do about that, tho. :(

I'm not sure about any breaks. Haven't heard. The previews kind of surprised me, tho. I thought Crowley was supposed to be hunting for that blade thingy - the whole reason Dean got the mark of Cain in the first place. *waves hand*

I'm getting a little worn down this year, I think. Your wish that they resolve this issue between them in the next couple of episodes sounds good to me! I'm kind of thinking they're going to drag it out further, tho and that makes me sad and ready for a nap. :D

I have to tell you this: Hubs doesn't watch Show, but as he was walking thru the livingroom, there was a closeup of Dean.

Hubs: He never gets old.

Me: Huh?

Hubs: Dean. He never looks any older.

Me: *thinking about Dean's yumminess* Nope. :D

See ya next time, my friend.
gaelicspirit
Mar. 18th, 2014 01:26 am (UTC)
Okay - love Ray's comment. He's right! Even though he doesn't have that innocence any more, he wears the years so well he just seems...eternal. *le sigh*

We do have another break at the beginning of April -- just two weeks, though. From 4/15 - 5/20 there aren't any more breaks. Bring it on, I say! :)
belbelleb
Mar. 5th, 2014 12:56 pm (UTC)
Yeah I was the same - I tuned out in Ed and Harry's chat at the end because I felt really clumsily manipulated and I am TIRED OF SHOW MAKING DEAN OUT TO BE THE FREAKING BADDIE, seriously, Sam needs to pull his self righteous head in and get over it. I love the boy, but geesh.
I still wonder if the mark is pulling the boys every which way. Sam is SO good at connecting to people emotionally in every others aspect of their lives, it seems really odd he is failing to connect with dean. It has to be either stubborn cruelty or something else. Mind you, Sam is very much in the same unforgiving, hold a grudge camp of Papa Winchester.
a_phoenixdragon
Mar. 5th, 2014 02:26 pm (UTC)
It has to be either stubborn cruelty or something else. Mind you, Sam is very much in the same unforgiving, hold a grudge camp of Papa Winchester

Thank you!! Those are the words I was looking for!!

I love Sam. I love John. I do not love Sam being John - and I think he'd be a little more self-aware than this. He's acting like a brat. And after all the crap he has pulled and gotten away with? Yeah...
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hunenka
Mar. 5th, 2014 02:05 pm (UTC)
Somehow, Sam needs to help his brother understand that it was the fact that he decided for Sam that he can’t forgive (yet) and not the fact that Dean saved his life. That is the thing Sam won’t do for Dean – take his choice away.

I really, really hope that is what's bugging Sam, but the way the last couple of episodes (and 901 too, come to think of it) were written, it feels more like Sam is really just pissed that Dean didn't let him die. The way he keeps stressing the "I was ready to die, I should have died" thing? He mentioned that more times than the fact that Dean made a choice for him. And that's just weird. When exactly did he become so suicidal?

I guess that's why I'm having so much trouble seeing things from Sam's point of view lately - I just feel like he doesn't really know what he wants himself.

Anyway, thank you. Reading your rambles always makes me more at peace with whatever's happened in the episodes :D
gaelicspirit
Mar. 18th, 2014 01:31 am (UTC)
See, maybe it's me being stubborn, but I don't see his comments as being suicidal. I don't think he wants to die, I think he wants to not feel guilty and he's pissed that Dean didn't let him choose. I think Sam thinks that his being saved sacrificed others.

But I disagree with him b/c there's absolutely no guarantee that they would have been better off if he'd died in that church -- or then later in the hospital bed. The angels would have still fallen. Metatron would have still needed to write out the prophet clause and get rid of Kevin. Sam's death wouldn't have prevented any of that; it would have just left Dean alone and bereft in a world of chaos.

But I don't think Sam can see that, unfortunately.

Ready to see where they take us next with all of this! :)
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cathy1967
Mar. 5th, 2014 02:18 pm (UTC)
It's funny. While watching this episode, I kept getting the feeling that Sam's nearing some kind of break-through. He kept glancing at Dean whenever the Ghostfacers made poignant comments and I think that he got close enough to see his brother die to shake him up a bit. The 'strictly business' approach isn't working here. He's still heavily invested in Dean emotionally. He's just being pissy right now and - shall we say 'punishing' his brother for taking away his choices.

I do understand where Sam's coming from. Totally. And in part I do think that Dean's reasons for saving Sam are partially selfish. He can't imagine the world without Sam in it, yes, but that is a selfish attitude. Just not in a bad way. It's not like he's keeping his brother alive despite him suffering from some terminal disease that makes him suffer. Sam is healthy, was saved from dying at too young an age. Granted, when he nearly died he was in a bad place physically. Was it Gadreel who said that he felt scorched on the inside? That can't be a nice feeling. So, yeah, I totally get that Sam was ready to throw in the towel to get away from the pain. Heaven knows he's had enough pain to last many lifetimes. His time in Hell, longer than Dean's, cannot have been a pick-nick. And even though Castiel took his 'pain' away, I wonder if he also took the memories. Dean remembers his time in Hell and the way he ended the psycho in this episode ... I attribute his almost indifferent expression to both the fact that this guy nearly killed him and had killed others, but also to the fact that Dean knows how to kill someone.

So, what am I trying to say here? *L* Generally, I get the feeling that Sam's getting closer to 'forgiving' Dean, if you can put it that way. Personally, I don't think there's anything to forgive when it comes to saving lives. As for taking away his choices ... well, yeah, Dean did that, but he did it for the right reasons and Sam needs to understand that. And they definitely need to sit down and talk this through. Nothing good comes of it when Sam clams up and Dean wants to talk. It's an upside-down world and it needs to be right-side up again very soon. Because this strife between them ... it's grating on my nerves. So, come on, Show. Kick it in the ass, get it over with, so we can get back to normal.

Thanks for your ramble. I always, always enjoy your point of view. :D
gaelicspirit
Mar. 18th, 2014 01:34 am (UTC)
It's not like he's keeping his brother alive despite him suffering from some terminal disease that makes him suffer. Sam is healthy, was saved from dying at too young an age.

EXACTLY!

I attribute his almost indifferent expression to both the fact that this guy nearly killed him and had killed others, but also to the fact that Dean knows how to kill someone.

Yeah, me too. I hadn't thought of it as a Mark of Cain thing until commenters said as much - primarily because it would have been the only subtle thing in the episode. Makes sense, but so does what you said.

Nothing good comes of it when Sam clams up and Dean wants to talk. It's an upside-down world and it needs to be right-side up again very soon.

YES!

Ready to see where they take us next! :)
winsangel
Mar. 5th, 2014 02:20 pm (UTC)
I'm not sure how much more of this my heart can take. I watch SPN to be entertained and to see Sam and Dean at least 'like' each other. I don't recognize either of them and haven't for a long time. At least Dean is trying to get Sam to open up but he's not budging; something's gotta give.

I said this last night on my twitter binge that the last scene, IMO, was possibly a light bulb moment for both of them, especially Sam, to realize what they're losing if they don't fix this now, or maybe it's my wishful thinking. Carver is getting on my last nerve with his version of "mature Sam and Dean."

The Mark of Cain is being pushed to the end of the season which is typical for the formula of show since Season 4. I can't say I enjoy waiting to see everything crammed in at the last minute when they could do so much more with the mythology. It just seems sloppy and unfulfilling this way. When Dean got the mark, my thoughts were that it would change him, send him dark so that Sam would somehow have to save him whether he wants to or not, that he'll see what Dean was faced with when the thought of losing his brother was a reality slapping him in the face. I hope that's were this is heading, and I don't want to think about the alternative of Sam letting Dean die.

I haven't posted here in a long time but want to tell you how much I appreciate your rambles and insights to the show and life in general. THANK YOU, Amanda. <3
gaelicspirit
Mar. 18th, 2014 01:36 am (UTC)

I said this last night on my twitter binge that the last scene, IMO, was possibly a light bulb moment for both of them, especially Sam, to realize what they're losing if they don't fix this now, or maybe it's my wishful thinking.


Man, I sure hope so. I want that 'bing' to happen within each of them and to not watch holding my breath for how their words are going to crush me.

Thank you for reading and taking time to leave me a comment. That means a lot to me, it really does. :)
a_phoenixdragon
Mar. 5th, 2014 02:22 pm (UTC)
Okay, for me, I pretty much agree with you - only thing is, how can one apologise when one isn't given room to do so. Dean has been waiting for the opening (cause gosh knows Sam won't hear him until he is good and ready), but it is no longer about Gadreel. Hell, I don't even think it is about what Gadreel did wearing Sam's body. I think it is the fact that Sam was given a taste of what it is like to not have a choice and he is taking it a bit too far. In many ways, he should have seen this coming. He took over the trials, knowing where they led - and he just stubbornly refused to listen to Dean's doubts and worries. All justified. Sam's god complex peeked through and he lost the bet. But he didn't expect Dean to react? What?

*Hands*

To me, this whole thing was a rehash. Oh look - we get Tulpa!Ghostfacers!! And what they began with (Tulpa) is what they will 'end' with. I'm not overly keen on Ed and Harry, but I was pissed that they were used to further this insipid, insulting and rather poorly explained storyline. The Facers were used to beat a dead horse that no one really understands HOW it died. Yeah, we get that Sam is pissed at Dean. We get kinda WHY. But it seems Sam's anger and 'I've been betrayed!!!1!' Feels have evolved beyond the initial point. Or this is just too much drama over something that should have been solved two eppies ago.

Huh. Maybe both.

Either way, this episode was a rehash on...everything. This went beyind filler to insulting, really. I am once again reminded of why I can be so very, very pissed off with SPN. They'd better pull this one outta the fire. I don't mind angst and pain - as long as it has a point (which this does not). I do not mind having my Feelings milked as long as it has been done well (which...yeah, you can likely guess).

Carver had better find a way to pull out of his Gamble!dive...and soon.

*HUGS*

Sorry, sorry...didn't mean to rant everywhere. I'm gonna go have ice cream and try to be better tempered now.
gaelicspirit
Mar. 18th, 2014 01:37 am (UTC)
how can one apologise when one isn't given room to do so. Dean has been waiting for the opening (cause gosh knows Sam won't hear him until he is good and ready), but it is no longer about Gadreel. Hell, I don't even think it is about what Gadreel did wearing Sam's body. I think it is the fact that Sam was given a taste of what it is like to not have a choice and he is taking it a bit too far.

YES! This -- it's not like I'm saying Dean has nothing to apologize for (I think they both do, honestly) but what is an apology going to do if they don't get to the root of the problem??

I'm ready for some Mark of Cain action. Or seeing Abbadon again doing more than chasing after Crowley.

And you can rant anytime you like. *hands you some Ben & Jerrys*

See ya, my friend.
apieceofcake
Mar. 5th, 2014 02:26 pm (UTC)
I just don't like the Ghostfacers, they annoy me and I just can't care about them. So this episode was blah for me. Sorry! xx.
gaelicspirit
Mar. 18th, 2014 01:38 am (UTC)
LOL! And that's all you have to say about that. ;)
tyrsibs
Mar. 5th, 2014 03:05 pm (UTC)
Not upsetting at all, Gaelic, on the heavy-handed parallels. I was thinking the same thing--I'm just hoping, like you, that it serves as a wake-up call to the brothers. I don't think the show will have them split or ever truly become "just partners", but I'm not sure what will bring them back together as family. Talking helps. That little conversation about their childhood had to help. (*sigh--that was such a sweet moment! 9 year old Dean, taking care of Sammy--are you paying attention here, Sam?) Deciding whether they want to let all of their past slip away in bitterness and misunderstanding will help even more--that's pretty much on Sam at this point, if he doesn't quite realize it, yet.

Overall, I liked this episode. I liked the Scooby Doo twist, and the Ghostfacers made me laugh, until things got heavy between them. Liked it that the final fight was a combination of the boys' skills and fighting prowess and Ghostfacer bravery. It was good of the writers to give Harry and Ed some depth, though I'm not sure they wore it very well.

I'm sad,too, that the show has chosen to tear away another link to the past by having the Facers split up. Seriously, is there going to be anything in their landscape that the Winchesters could recognize by the time they're done? Everyone is either dead, gone away, or transformed at this point, except Cas, and he's off fighting his own battles.

Just one more thing--I was disturbed by the cold way that Dean killed Roger, monster or no. Not killing humans was a line that he had previously respected, demon vessels notwithstanding (and what's done during war has to be considered in a different light from the ethical choices we make at other times--and the boys have been at war with demons for some time now). So to see him shove that knife in with that look on his face--that's what the Mark of Cain is doing to him.

Anyway, looks like we're in for a wait--I hope all is well with you in the meantime!

Barb
gaelicspirit
Mar. 18th, 2014 01:39 am (UTC)
Seriously, is there going to be anything in their landscape that the Winchesters could recognize by the time they're done? Everyone is either dead, gone away, or transformed at this point, except Cas, and he's off fighting his own battles.

Right? They're going to need to create new contacts at some point!! ;)

Thanks so much for reading and commenting, Barb. I really enjoy hearing from you. So sorry that the replies have been slow going. This Real Life thing is a bitch sometimes.

See you soon?
chemm80
Mar. 5th, 2014 03:36 pm (UTC)
The heavy-handed way the writers decided to overlay Ed and Harry’s situation with Dean and Sam’s just had me shaking my head.

You and me both, sister. It's the kind of thing that would have had me gnashing my teeth back in the day, but now I'm less angry with the writers jerking me (and our boys) around than I am frustrated with their failure to ever, ever learn. Like you said...secrets and lies? We've been here before.

I didn't mind the Ghostfacer's first appearance on the show, and got downright irritated with their second in S3, but that was more because it was the first new ep back from the writer's hiatus and I wanted to see Sam and Dean, not a bunch of randoms. Eventually they kind of grew on me. Although last night I kept on seeing AJ Buckley's character from Justified in my head, overlaying it with Ed Zeddmore, and marveling at his acting. Very distracting.

I did get a kick out of the MoTW story, though. It's been a while since I could identify one as being an urban legend I'd heard of—although I'd always heard it "Slenderman" and in fact, since I was completely unspoiled, as soon as they said "Thin Man" I yelled, "Slenderman!" at the TV. Confusing my daughter and startling the cat.

I really liked the childhood memory moment too, and

They laugh a little and Dean takes a swallow of his beer saying, “Good times.”

...good Lord was Dean pretty in that shot. Just blew me away all over again.

Harry: No. You roll with a guy so many years you start to think he’s always gonna be next to you. Like when you’re old on a porch, he’ll be in the other rocking chair. And then something happens and you realize that other chair is empty. Y’know what I mean?

That was the one moment that got to me about that whole clumsy, ham-handed story line, because the Impala's passenger seat being empty is such an emotional button for me, and for Dean, has always been both in the show and in fanfiction. That's Sam's place. And these two are not boys anymore, and when you get older you start to think about that stuff.

But I suppose no one gets out of this life unscathed. There is much scathing going on with these two.

Ha! Good one. :)

gaelicspirit
Mar. 18th, 2014 01:41 am (UTC)
Oh! I'd never heard of this urban legend before. That's fun that you knew what they were talking about. :)

good Lord was Dean pretty in that shot. Just blew me away all over again.

RIGHT?! There are times I want to just pause and stare. And...sometimes...I do. >_>

And these two are not boys anymore, and when you get older you start to think about that stuff.

Yep.

See you soon-ish?
yohkobennington
Mar. 5th, 2014 03:49 pm (UTC)
I agree with you 100%. If they just honestly talked, be clear, and listen, they would have been pass this forced crap they are doing. And the last thing I want is Sam being forced to bury this because of Dean being in a live or dead situation.I want them to freaking talk goddammit. That's their biggest problem, they do not seriously communicate. How does a relationship be healthy and work without it? They need to say, what you exactly said to each other. I'm so done with misunderstandings :c

The parallels were completely unnecessary.
Writers of the show we are not stupid:
 photo tumblr_n1y2iaVIHx1s975uao2_400_zps7735ef9c.gif
gaelicspirit
Mar. 18th, 2014 01:41 am (UTC)
I adore your .gifs. They just make me laugh. :) Thank you for reading, commenting, and making me laugh. ((HUGS))
Lakitha Tolbert
Mar. 5th, 2014 05:04 pm (UTC)
I haven't always agreed with your reviews before but this time I'm very much in agreement.

I, too, am the oldest sibling,having helped raise two younger ones and I can totally see Dean's point of view about making decisions your siblings don't agree with and being completely unapologetic for those decisions.

But, and this is key, as the firstborn I'm at the mercy of my Mother's decision making, so I can and do understand why Sam is angry about what was done. I don't like the messages that he's being given that he should just go ahead and forgive Dean (which he very much seems to want to do). What happened goes a little beyond forgiveness. There needs to be some kind of understanding between them as well.

You know what this looks like to me? You know how ,during the teenage years ,you began to experience this separation of identity from your parents. This feels very like what's hapening between Sam and Dean.It feels like Sam is trying to make Dean understand that he is not sinply Dean's reflection.

For the longest time, Dean has treated Sam as very much a part of himself and has taken it for granted that he knows what Sam is thinking and feeling most of the time. And because Sam has gone along with this for so long Dean's never been disabused of this notion that Sam wants all the same things he wants and feels the same way he does about life.

On some level he understands but on another level he thinks the way things have been are right and good because he's gotten what he's wanted out of life for so long (Sam alive).And in situations where that has been threatened ,he was always able to turn it around, even if he had to sacrifice himself to do that (This time when that was threatened ,he sacrificed Sam's autonomy.)

Since he needs Sam to live, it's inexplicable to him that Sam would've been ready to die.

ALl that said, I realy liked this episode. I liked the interaction between the brothers. I liked how thay started using the laptops at different parts of the room, but the next scene ,you can see that Sam has moved his over to Dean's table at some point during their research.

I liked the memory moment and also that neither of them got conked on the head this time, but tased instead. This time Ed? got conked on the head (and frankly I was hoping someone would bop at least one of the Ghostfacers on the noggin at least once.)

I liked this episode much more than last weeks.
gaelicspirit
Mar. 18th, 2014 01:47 am (UTC)
I don't like the messages that he's being given that he should just go ahead and forgive Dean (which he very much seems to want to do). What happened goes a little beyond forgiveness. There needs to be some kind of understanding between them as well.

This is interesting to me. I didn't see the message that Sam should just forgive Dean; I saw the message that this is one of those things that -- like Ed -- Sam couldn't forgive. And either way, forgiveness or not, you're right. They need to come to an understanding. Not simply because what was done to Sam went beyond forgiveness, but because he needs to know why his brother did what he did (and it was not just because Dean didn't want to be alone), and Dean needs to know that Sam wouldn't simply let him die.

Since he needs Sam to live, it's inexplicable to him that Sam would've been ready to die.

This I totally agree with. But that's where the understanding part comes into play. It's not that Sam doesn't want Dean to save him; it's that he doesn't want Dean to assume for him. And when he's made a choice, he wants Dean to respect that. It's going to be a hard pill for Dean to swallow and he might not understand at first having been so conditioned from such a young age to save Sam, pretty much no matter what. But it's on Sam to help his brother accept this aspect of his personality if there's ever to be true understanding between them.

Thanks for reading and taking time to comment. I appreciate being able to read your thoughts!
suebsg9
Mar. 5th, 2014 05:14 pm (UTC)
I think the longer the boys fight the easier it is for Dean to adjust. Granted he was not adjusting well before but its like he was all set to leave on a case. He wasn't taking Sam since he has no idea where Sam's headspace is at; I even like how professional he was with the whole exchange and even showing him the case. Right now even though yes things are not good between the boys this is still a win in Deans book. Sam is alive and they are working cases and living under same roof. They might not be talking but I think he will take that for now then the alternative. Granted not sure using Harry and Ed as sounding boards to what is going on with the brothers was smart because they have not been through the stuff sam and dean have been through. And Dean did hear about secrets. I think the thing is as we get further along to the end of the season whenever this gets resolved and who will do the resolving I think the mark will still have some kind of effect on dean. I mean Dean was talking out the case again trying to get the ghostfacers out of the line of fire so nothing would happen to them. But I think also every week we can ask ourselves about why the mark hasn't been mentioned. The mark is not like Sam's illness we saw stuff from the trials bothering him right away which he hid from Dean. I think either you see changes in your brother and is it the mark? I mean Dean was helping to put the knife in guy if not he was not fighting to stop him from killing himself. I mean its like in Sharp Teeth gun versus knife; gun usually wins in that battle but Dean was able to do it so quickly. So I think the mark is doing subtle things to dean. Not sure having bearing on the relationship down the road who knows but now its their own issues but again Dean seems to be handling well. To me he was professional through out with sam other then the moment he talked about the jumping off shed. But other then that Dean is now starting to be mr professional and giving sam his space. But like I said Dean is probobly he can live with this situation the way it is now. Like I said its a win win sam alive and they are hunting.
gaelicspirit
Mar. 18th, 2014 01:50 am (UTC)
I even like how professional he was with the whole exchange and even showing him the case. Right now even though yes things are not good between the boys this is still a win in Deans book. Sam is alive and they are working cases and living under same roof. They might not be talking but I think he will take that for now then the alternative.

Yep, totally agree.

The thing with the Mark affecting Dean -- I agree that it could very easily have been the influence of the Mark as to why Dean was able to bucket the bad guy into "okay to kill" because he was a killer, but at the time, I just thought Dean was reacting to the fact that this guy was a killer, he'd tried to kill Dean and Dean had learned to kill quite well in Hell and Purgatory. In such a heavy-handed episode, the fact that the Mark was having a subtle impact on Dean didn't actually occur to me until I read comments.

Ready to see what else they have in story for us, Mark-wise. :)
(Anonymous)
Mar. 5th, 2014 06:48 pm (UTC)
I'm not going to comment on the episode (well, much...) because I agree with pretty much everything that's already been said: my head hurts from the anvils and it looks like Dean is being set up to have to make the big apology and Sam has to decide whether to forgive him or not. I've got a whole long meta on forgiveness and penitence in the SPN world that I've been working on since about season 5 (it keeps getting more complicated season by season and probably will never see the light of day) so I won't get into it here.

What I do want to toss in as an aside is about the title. Anyone remember the old movie, "The Thin Man" with Myrna Loy and William Powell? As I recall (my memory is going in my older years...) the Thin Man in that movie was a construct, too--a fake character that was set up as the murderer to lead the detectives away from the real crime. I'm guessing the writer(and Ed) are classic movie fans, and Harry is not.

Thank you so much for all your rambles, Gaelic! I read them every week (and do come by to read the other comments) so know I'm always lurking even if I don't add to the conversation.

Nancy
gaelicspirit
Mar. 18th, 2014 01:52 am (UTC)
I didn't until you mentioned it! My mom used to love William Powell movies and I remember Myrna Loy from The Bachelor and the Bobby Soxer. :) I didn't even realize that the Thin Man was a real Urban Legend. Love it when I find out about stuff like that! :)

Thanks so much for sharing!
vansgroi
Mar. 5th, 2014 06:59 pm (UTC)
Great ramble as always. I too noticed the heavy-handed parallels between the GF storyline and Sam and Dean. And yet, despite it all, I ended up liking the episode quite a bit. It's quite odd, especially since I never have been much of a fan of the Ghostfacers. Then last night, I found myself tearing up when they were "breaking up". Now, having read everyone else's reactions, I find myself slightly embarrassed about that. LOL

Anyway, there were moments of awesome throughout this episode and the "Dean pretty" never fails to amaze me. I am truly hoping that the little moments we saw are leading to some internal revelations that will bring the boys back to where we want them to be (as you said).

I asked Heidie (who was watching with me last night) if she thought there was something meaningful to Dean's killing of the killer. It didn't seem like a normal "it's him or me" type thing that you would normally expect to see from Dean (or Sam too really). To me it seemed like there was some significance to it, but I asked Heidie if maybe I was just imagining it. She was unsure. We discussed it but never did come to a conclusion.

So all in all, I'm the oddball who rather liked this episode quite a lot despite the heavy-handed overlay of stories. To me, I though that the growing rift between Ed and Harry brought our boys storyline into a more poignant focus. Like a prism maybe. I dunno--I'm being weird.

I ended up feeling bad for Ed and Harry (which I NEVER expected) and it made my heart hurt all the more for our boys.
gaelicspirit
Mar. 18th, 2014 01:54 am (UTC)
Don't be embarrassed! Your soft heart is one of the best things about you, Ness. Sympathizing for them is a good thing. :)

About Dean killing the bad guy being influence of the Mark -- I said above
that I agree that it could very easily have been the influence of the Mark as to why Dean was able to bucket the bad guy into "okay to kill" because he was a killer, but at the time, I just thought Dean was reacting to the fact that this guy was a killer, he'd tried to kill Dean and Dean had learned to kill quite well in Hell and Purgatory. In such a heavy-handed episode, the fact that the Mark was having a subtle impact on Dean didn't actually occur to me until I read comments.

I like the spin that the overlay of the story put what was going on with our boys into focus. I hadn't thought of it that way before. :)
jackfan2
Mar. 5th, 2014 07:07 pm (UTC)
You summed up everything I felt about the supposed parallel's between the Ghost Facer guys and the Winchester's issues. I was thoroughly annoyed with having that thrown in our faces so, agree 100% with you.

The episode was mostly boring. But, did you notice how Dean reacted when the deputy pulled his head back and was positioning the knife to cut his throat? Dean looked thoroughly resigned and okay with it. He didn't flinch, didn't squirm, just went utterly still.

I think that was a very telling moment for Dean. That, and when he drove that knife into the deputy and killed him. I really see our Dean-o going darkside and probably by the end if this season. I think once he gets his hands on the First Blade, that, along with all the crap he's dealing with in regard to his and Sam's relationship, and how he's pulling away, will drive him further afield.

Anyway, those 2 things were the only note-worthy mentions in this ep. Oh, and the little conversation about flying -- Batman can't fly! -- moment. I pretty much moved to the edge of my seat thinking, "Oh.. is this going to be a moment of ... " then.. "NO! DRATS!"

So as throw away eps go, short of those 2 moments of Dean's resignation and willingness to kill, this was one that could have been skipped or just... done better. Oh .. there's a thought. ;)
gaelicspirit
Mar. 18th, 2014 01:55 am (UTC)
But, did you notice how Dean reacted when the deputy pulled his head back and was positioning the knife to cut his throat? Dean looked thoroughly resigned and okay with it. He didn't flinch, didn't squirm, just went utterly still.

Yep. And it made me catch my breath. 'Course...most things he does has that same affect on me. ;)

I'm ready for more Mark of Cain stuff!! :)
jillsmyth
Mar. 5th, 2014 07:31 pm (UTC)
Sam needs to help his brother understand that it was the fact that he decided for Sam that he can’t forgive (yet) and not the fact that Dean saved his life. That is the thing Sam won’t do for Dean – take his choice away.

So much this. Thanks for putting it into words. My hubs is such a Deanboy and I haven't been able to find the right words so help him understand Sam's POV. But this will be a great help.

Which is why Dean overpowering and making Roger stab himself didn’t trouble me too greatly.

I found this really dark of Dean. I can't remember him so cavalierly killing a human before, no matter how monstrous a human it was. Maybe this is a small sign of the Mark of Cain.
gaelicspirit
Mar. 18th, 2014 02:02 am (UTC)
My hubs is such a Deanboy and I haven't been able to find the right words so help him understand Sam's POV. But this will be a great help.

I'm glad I could help. When I think about what Dean puts himself through because of or for his brother, I have to find a way to see things through Sam's eyes. If that makes any sense....

The thing with the Mark affecting Dean -- I agree that it could very easily have been the influence of the Mark as to why Dean was able to bucket the bad guy into "okay to kill" because he was a killer, but at the time, I just thought Dean was reacting to the fact that this guy was a killer, he'd tried to kill Dean and Dean had learned to kill quite well in Hell and Purgatory. In such a heavy-handed episode, the fact that the Mark was having a subtle impact on Dean didn't actually occur to me until I read comments.

I'm ready for more Mark of Cain-ness! :)
borgmama1of5
Mar. 5th, 2014 07:32 pm (UTC)
I was annoyed with the anvillness of the episode until I thought about it and read ash48's review.

At first it looks like a parallel, but it really isn't:
Ed manipulated Harry to 'save' him from a 'normal' life.
Dean overrode Sam's desire to die.

Similar but not the same. And I wonder if Sam might be starting to see there are degrees of manipulation.

Ash48 put it well, that giving fans the situation removed from being Sam and Dean might help us see the shades of gray in the who's right/who's wrong more clearly.

I am taking the look on Sam's face at the end after Harry talks about the rocking chair as he is thinking hard about how far this could go. It's not necessarily fair to Sam, but he is the one with the power now--the power to forgive. Dean is not necessarily making it easy for Sam to do that because Dean is not begging for forgiveness, he has gone walls-up defensive, but ultimately Sam has to choose to move forward.

I could not tell whether Dean was actively stabbing the bad guy or trying to keep the guy from stabbing himself. It feels OOC for Dean to kill a human. (Unless it's the influence of the Mark? But that would be incredibly subtle for a show that was dropping anvils all night.)

What did register was after Harry shot the deputy and was standing there in shock, Dean reached over and gently pushed the gun down, like he understood how it felt to kill a person for the first time.

I just don't know where Carver is taking this...

No show 3/11.
gaelicspirit
Mar. 18th, 2014 02:05 am (UTC)
Well, no, they're not the same, but the similarity was enough for me to feel the weight.

And I wonder if Sam might be starting to see there are degrees of manipulation.

If this comes out of it, then the episode will have been worth it. Because we're not talking about a person who is innocent of manipulating people and the situation for his own benefit himself. He just may not have realized he was doing so before.

What did register was after Harry shot the deputy and was standing there in shock, Dean reached over and gently pushed the gun down, like he understood how it felt to kill a person for the first time.

Agreed -- I really liked how gentle Dean got with the two of them after seeing them as real people and not gnats put on the earth solely to annoy him. :)

See you soon!
taylorariel
Mar. 5th, 2014 08:07 pm (UTC)
I had read your ramble early this morning and intended to write a long thoughtful reply but I had another family "emergency" and had to leave without commenting.

So I just want to say I agree with you completely. I felt using Ed and Harry to "illustrate" to the viewer what is supposedly going on between Dean and Sam was a failure. It belittled the "conflict" between the Winchesters and solved nothing. And- for me- it took two guest characters who have always managed to lighten the show and made them dull and glum.

In my personal life I have been having a similar rift with my beloved younger brother so often I do see eerie familiar things when I watch the interaction between Dean and Sam. In my situation I have felt distance and time apart are the only things that have enabled me to handle my crisis and function. So when Dean allowed Sam to join him in this hunt I wanted to scream at him to "just let him go". Being together has not helped in any way to solve this problem between them so I do believe- realistically- Dean needs to get away from the problem (Sam) for awhile. It is an extremely painful thing for me to do but I know I will go insane trying to live with the silent wall between us.

I am glad there is a repeat next week in the hope that the next episode will help me to get rid of the bad taste in my mouth from the last two ones. I am tired of this constant never-ending friction between the two main characters. If they were a couple I would think either they would just (honestly) f--k it out of themselves or break up. Season after Season of brother arguments and friction is so tiring and boring. It is killing the show for me. Now I watch to be able to see Jensen/Dean and really, nothing else.

I look forward to the fan fiction to allow me to connect to my two favorite fictional brothers.

I hope you had a safe time Down Under and a safe trip home.

Best to you and yours,
MD
gaelicspirit
Mar. 18th, 2014 02:16 am (UTC)
I'm sorry to hear that you're having a rift with your brother. It seems to be on a constant rotation for me, which sibling is choosing to have issues with me, but it's never easy. And I can see watching this rift would hurt as you're going through it. :(

Watching to see Jensen/Dean is a good enough reason, I say. :) He's just...unf. Yummy.

Thanks for taking time to read and comment!!
jazzyirish
Mar. 5th, 2014 09:28 pm (UTC)
Hi Gaelic, thanks for a wonderful ramble. I agree with your opening statement regarding the writer's attempt to kill us with anvils completely. Someone please take away Jenny Klein's Writer's Guild membership! I think she used actual dialogue from Sam and Dean's disagreements and put it into the GF's mouths. What drivel. If tonight's episode is any indication of what is to come, I'd say that we're in store for a major apology from Dean along with considerable grovelling in order to gain his long-suffering brother's forgiveness. I hope against hope that isn't what happens, but it probably will. What these guys need is some serious open conversation in which each person gives his reasons for his actions and feelings. My lord, am I tired of this nonsense!

I've never liked the Ghostfacers, so I really didn't care about their situation and I find their prattle annoying. Of course, that alone made the anvil dropping even more obnoxious to me. I know that many viewers enjoy them, but I never have understood their appeal.

Regarding Dean's killing of the sociopathic clerk, I believe it may have been a subtle indication of the Mark in an episode where it would have been the only subtle thing going on. ;) Dean put that knife very slowly and deliberately into the guy while the guy was completely subdued and no longer a threat. And there was no remorse there in killing a human. We really haven't seen Dean do this before to a human if I recall correctly. So, I think our hero is becoming resigned to being a "killer", rejected by his brother who "keeps him human" and going to the dark side since he doesn't feel he has anything to lose at this point. Oh Dean...

So that's what I took away from this fiasco of an episode. I am sick to death of the brothers' fighting. The writing on this show has truly gone to hell in a hand-basket!

Thanks for all your thoughts and a great ramble. I'm glad that next week is a re-run since it would have been preempted in Chicago again. Catch you after the next one...

Irish
gaelicspirit
Mar. 18th, 2014 02:18 am (UTC)


I'd say that we're in store for a major apology from Dean along with considerable grovelling in order to gain his long-suffering brother's forgiveness.

I'm with you -- I hope that's not what happens. It might make Sam feel better, but it won't fix anything. And it'll just cut Dean lower b/c he'll think that everything he's done -- everything -- was wrong. :(

The thing with the Mark affecting Dean -- I agree that it could very easily have been the influence of the Mark as to why Dean was able to bucket the bad guy into "okay to kill" because he was a killer, but at the time, I just thought Dean was reacting to the fact that this guy was a killer, he'd tried to kill Dean and Dean had learned to kill quite well in Hell and Purgatory. In such a heavy-handed episode, the fact that the Mark was having a subtle impact on Dean didn't actually occur to me until I read comments.

But I can see the Mark having a subtle, consistent effect on him that he doesn't realize is happening until suddenly he is what most everyone in his life has always taken for granted he is: a weapon.

See you soon! :)
iontas
Mar. 6th, 2014 01:55 am (UTC)
I just saw the episode today because it was preempted last night for basketball. I think you were being generous about this episode! I do feel a little better about it after reading your ramble. But all in all, I kind of hated it. It happened exactly where it went south for you. Heavy handed, no kidding! And their situation is nothing like Sam and Dean. Talk about trivializing something! I am back to being sick to death of Sam. Lies ruin a relationship? How many has Sam told? But I guess since this one was Dean's then it is ok for Sam to declare it is a brotherhood breaker. I was looking forward to this episode as a break from the drama. Ghostfacers are supposed to be funny and maybe poignant. Are they just going to wreck everything? Sorry, I am still grumpy. Maybe there was some hope in this episode with the Superman and Batman thing. For a minute I thought Sam was going to say something mean about it. So I am glad he didn't and seemed nostalgic. Maybe there is hope. I am worried that I have gotten so weary of the divide between the brothers that when it is finally resolved I won't care. That makes me really sad.

Your description of Dean taking Sam to the ER really cheered me up. It is so adorable to imagine. I bet they didn't have real costumes either, but made them themselves somehow. I can just see it. So, trying to put aside my grumpy, gloomy, self, I think the boys are still in there somewhere. I still believe. I am just finding it hard to find the energy to clap.
gaelicspirit
Mar. 18th, 2014 02:20 am (UTC)
I still believe. I am just finding it hard to find the energy to clap.

Awww, I loved this as much as it made me sad. I'll clap with you!!! We'll get some Mark of Cain action soon, I just know it! :)
(no subject) - iontas - Mar. 19th, 2014 02:12 am (UTC) - Expand
grean
Mar. 6th, 2014 02:08 am (UTC)
I enjoy your reviews even when I don't always agree with everything in them.
I am no Ghostfacers fan. They annoy me and I thought using them as parallels cheapened Sam and Dean's story. That being said I find if I just stare at Dean I can get through anything.
There were bits I liked, they were just few and far between. I liked the bit of weechester history. A brief glimpse of old Sam in a panic when Dean is in imminent danger of having his throat cut, warmed my heart.
I think the Mark of Cain is why Dean killed crazy guy. I am hoping that they put some effort into getting to this more interesting and less fan destroying storyline.
Thank you for giving us a place to share and vent about our remarkable show.
strgazr04
Mar. 6th, 2014 04:08 am (UTC)
I was thinking the same thing about the MOC issue. That stomach stab was so strange and had this long beat to it where Dean just held him there. So weird. It almost made me think of a combo between Hell!Dean torturing people via Alastair and Purgatory!Dean.
(no subject) - gaelicspirit - Mar. 18th, 2014 02:22 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - gaelicspirit - Mar. 18th, 2014 02:21 am (UTC) - Expand
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