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Stream of Consciousness, Epiode 5.15

I have to say … they could have sat in the middle of an empty room on barstools and stared at me for 50 mins and I would have been happy to see them. *grin* Okay, this is well and truly a ramble and completely unedited because I’m tired, so please forgive typos, etc.


Just because I'm sorry doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it at the time… Collapse )



( 79 Tall Tales — Tell Me A Story )
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Mar. 26th, 2010 07:50 pm (UTC)
This episode just killed me. And I absolutely loved Jim's acting in this one. When we first saw Karen, the conflict was so clear on his face.
The hunter in him knew that something had to be done, but the man in him, the husband in him just wanted to believe in something good.

That he had to kill her again just breaks me, but I think if one of the boys had done it, he would never have forgiven them.

I'm looking forward to next week, the previews looks interesting :)
Mar. 27th, 2010 09:15 pm (UTC)
The hunter in him knew that something had to be done, but the man in him, the husband in him just wanted to believe in something good.

*Gaelic breaks all over again*

I think if one of the boys had done it, he would never have forgiven them...

I totally agree.

I'm looking forward to next week...just because!! LOL! I would look up the previews, but I don't want to get spoiled accidentally. So, I'll just take in the tidbits others have left me and let my brain chew on it awhile. :)

Thank you so much for reading and coming by!
Mar. 26th, 2010 08:04 pm (UTC)
You're spoiler free, so I won't tell you what was said yesterday. :(

Jim said about that death scene that it was emotionally draining. A few days ago, he posted that he'd been going thru Cecily's stuff and found some old cassette tapes of her singing songs that she'd written. He gathered them up, went out to his car (probably the only place he has a cassette player), and listened to his 'sweet girl's voice' singing those songs. The humming comment last night made me think of that, too. Man!

Jim tweeted this morning as he was getting on a plane that the pies were real, just real old. lol

A really awesome, awesome episode last night. I haven't watched it again, yet, but I will! And I agree with everything you said. I didn't understand the references for the names they used, either.

Dean leaning against the Impala was a mighty fine picture. :D

I've a feeling the end of this season is going to leave us with our hearts the worse for wear. :(
Mar. 27th, 2010 09:18 pm (UTC)
You're spoiler free, so I won't tell you what was said yesterday...

Ack! Who said what? Don't leave me hanging like that! *bites lip* You have me worried...

I can only imagine how exhausted Jim was after this episode. I could see them saying, "That's a wrap" and him heading to his trailer to sleep for days.

At least that's what I'd do.

LOL! The pies were real?? LOL!

And yes, Dean leaning against that Impala... I need a avi of that. *sighs happily*

Yes, I agree. This season is going to take awhile to recover from... *sniff*
Mar. 26th, 2010 10:52 pm (UTC)
Loved your review as always.

Here's my pet peeve.. which I've written on a few forums. I lived in Sioux Falls.. it's not a little town. It has over 140,000 residents.. large hospitals, symphony, art galleries, major chain restaurants, lofts, developments, rush hour, minor league baseball, arena football, CBA basketball, privates schools and lots of wind and snow!

Come on people.. do some research. Every town in SD is small BUT Sioux Falls. Drove me crazy.. since I lived there for 8 years. Not a podunk town where you could round up the townspeople and put them somewhere.

Also, this supposedly podunk small town has alot of Catholics since you have to be Catholic to be buried in a Catholic cemetery.. and I assume St. Anthony is a Catholic cemetery. Everyone who was raised was buried there.. right? Although the REAL Sioux Falls is the diocesan center for the Catholic relgion in SD - the Cathedral is beautiful (Christmas Eve mass.. with the choir.. beautiful)

So although it was a heartbreaking ep.. the lack of geographical knowledge is disheartening. Hey adding diners or restaurants or other landmarks that aren't in a city is fine.. but to make either the largest or second largest city (not sure how big Rapid City is) in SD a small rural town is just wrong.

Am I being too sensitive? I usually could care less. just give me the boys (Dean especially and being whumped please) and a decent plot and I'm a happy camper.
Mar. 27th, 2010 04:18 am (UTC)
I'm from Des Moines, IA and I have been to Sioux Falls, SD on many occasions and every time I go there I either A. Get Lost or B. Get a Speeding Ticket.

You are absolutely correct, Sioux Falls is way too big. But none of the towns are even close to being spot on (except for maybe Lawrence). Whenever I see Sioux Falls, I just imagine, their on the outskirts, kind of 'looking into' Sioux Falls.

Eh, I know.

Oh, and although I'm also Catholic, lots of religions have St. BlahBlah as their churches and cemeteries.
(no subject) - mtee - Mar. 27th, 2010 02:43 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - amyblair3 - Mar. 27th, 2010 04:10 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - gaelicspirit - Mar. 27th, 2010 09:28 pm (UTC) - Expand
Mar. 27th, 2010 04:09 am (UTC)
Oh! Well, first off, I did not know that the episodes had been switched and so now that I know that, I am feeling oddly better.

It wasn't my favorite episode, but I did like it. I was really very happy to see them spend so much time with Bobby and I loved him without his hat. I am assuming Karen was a lady who would say, "Bobby. Are you outside? Hat off inside." It made him look more like 'Jim' but it gave him such a wholesome look that I liked that. And is it me but is anyone even noticing the wheelchair anymore? I have a brother who is handicapped and I really don't ever notice it. Maybe it is me.

Loved the 'Fargo' comment. I am a lover of the movie 'Fargo'. It is one of those, for me, where I can watch it again and again and never tire of it. I also LOVED the 'Another horseman? Must be Thursday." Deliver it, baby!

I wondered the same thing about the headshot and Angela from CSPWDT. The headshot thing, I thought, was for ghouls, Adam and his mother-type. It was confused.

It was an odd thing the Dean/Sam/Dean thing. I don't know if they did it that way just to fit the story line or what. I mean, in SftD, Sam needs Bobby to know that he was the one that ultimately popped the cork on Lucifer. He wants Bobby's forgiveness, but I don't think he needs his approval. I think he loves Bobby, wants Bobby, but need Bobby? I don't know. Dean definitely needs Bobby more. Dean certainly talks about Bobby as a father-figure. Sam walks away from him when Dean dies to figure things out on his own. Even in the Trickster's world in MS, Sam doesn't 'need' Bobby.

I think he takes Bobby for granted more than Dean. I think it is part of Sam's make up more than anything. Sam has a darker side, less people are let in to his heart.

But then surrounded by the town, Sam saying he thought Digger was the town drunk, but the towns people saying it was Bobby? I think moments like that for Sam are "OH and oh" moments.

I think maybe since the eps were reversed, maybe we were suppose to feel "Huh?" about Sam because of what was to come and maybe wanting to see Dean connect and break with Bobby so that when he looked up and asked for "Help" standing outside in the salvage yard where Karen had burned not long before, that we would think, "This sucks. Poor Winchesters." And then sigh and think, "But, damn they're pretty."

Nice Ramble.
Mar. 27th, 2010 09:33 pm (UTC)
I think he takes Bobby for granted more than Dean. I think it is part of Sam's make up more than anything. Sam has a darker side, less people are let in to his heart.

I agree. I'm going to say this too simply for how I really feel, but... I think that when Sam has Dean he has this "I don't need anyone else" thought process. Personally, and this is just from observing my sibs and is not meant to be a blanket statement in any way, I think the younger siblings tend to take any other authority figures or protectors for granted in general because they have their older sib holding that role for them.

But the older sib needs to know that there's someone to turn to; they need to know that they're not alone. And Dean has already told Bobby on more than one occasion that he's like a father to him, that he can't do it without him. Dean NEEDS Bobby. It's deeper than just a familial connection.

Sam loves Bobby, but I don't know that it goes much beyond that.

And yes. They are so. very. pretty.

There were a couple of shots of Dean that I just wanted to freeze and capture and stare at while I let the rest of the world kinda fade...awayyyyyyy....
Mar. 27th, 2010 04:13 am (UTC)
Oh! And who the fuck wouldn't recognize the name Neidermeyer?
Mar. 27th, 2010 02:59 pm (UTC)
Who are you, the Animal House police? Bite me.


(no subject) - amyblair3 - Mar. 27th, 2010 04:07 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - gaelicspirit - Mar. 27th, 2010 08:16 pm (UTC) - Expand
Mar. 27th, 2010 06:15 am (UTC)
I giggled every time the guys said South Dakota \0/ and laughed hysterically when Sam called Sioux Falls a podunk town :) it's the largest town here in SoDakland. Now if the writers had used Pukwana instead of Sioux Falls...

I will never believe Bobby lives east river, mainly cause it's east river :( but also cause in "Devil's Trap" his tow truck had a Lawrence County (west river) plate. Bobby lives around Central City, Lead/Deadwood, and/or Spearfish - at least in my world.

Once I got done giggling I just loved the entire episode...the pies, the Animal House reference, the zombies, all the head shots...even Bobby's suffering over having to kill his dead wife again. Even better - Sam got slimed by a zombie!!!
Mar. 27th, 2010 09:37 pm (UTC)
Hey Kyle! You're from SD, yes? :) I totally know exactly what you mean. I'm in Lawrence, KS. From the moment "Lawrence, KS, 22 Years Ago" swept across the screen in the pilot, I've done a little \0/ myself whenever my hometown is mentioned -- one way or another. :)

And, dude, good on you for noticing the plates! I would never have seen that. And I think it's funny that his plates were from "Lawrence County." Hee! Out of curiousity, what's wrong with east river?

Sam being slimed by the zombie?? SO. Incredibly. GROSS! What was even better, though? Was the noise of complete disgust he made after blasting away the zombie. After I got done quibbing, I had to laugh.

Made of awesome.

Thank you for reading and taking time to comment! Hope to see you again.

Edited at 2010-03-27 09:37 pm (UTC)
Mar. 27th, 2010 03:20 pm (UTC)
Hi gaelic-its meggin
Yeah-that was definitely a reference to "Animal House" which means that Dean was playing "Flounder"-hehe.

I too was disappointed that this episode was not a continuation from the last one before the Hiatus-because as a fan I've become conditioned to expect a dramatic cliff ending scene like the tearful plead of Dean's one word "please?" cast up to the heavens would surely illicit a response in the next moment we picked up the show. But I was also a bit relieved too, ya know? Because it would have been all to easy to have the writers throw Michael in at that moment saying "You Called?" Which may have been the original lead in had Supernatural not been picked up for the 6th season-who knows?

Any way this was probably the most poignant episode to watch on so many levels. As you pointed out, for Jim Beaver it must have been a true test to his professional ability to handle a hard role because of its emotional closeness. I heard that there were many scenes that had the camera crew and off set people wiping their eyes because they knew Jim and they knew he was playing it for real. So yeah, lines like the one that referenced his memories of her humming off tune and Karen's quiet grace when she tried to explain to Dean that when you really love some one you try to bring them peace and comfort not pain-gutted me.

In the debate of who it might be that is taken from the boys by the end of this season-because Kripke did allude to the fact that by season six the Winchesters would be down one "family" member-(shudders) I'm gonna say it won't be Bobby. First because it would be too cruel to take the last vestige of human family away from them and for practical reason Jim Beaver's got too much "play" vested in his character to have the PTB short sighted enough to loose such a good sounding board to bounce Sam's and Dean's personalities off of. That being said I'm reminded of other excellent characters that had miles to go on their usefulness but were killed off like: Eva, Andy, Ash, and Madison. Be that as it may, my vote is that Cas will not make it to season six. I figure that if the boys are able to resolve the Apocalypse Cas just might be reinstated back into Heaven. If His Father forgives him of his support and defense of the Winchesters. But I kinds suspect that is the whole reason Cas got the job of baby sitting them in the first place (LOL)Somebody had to watch over the idjits and Bobby is only human! I betcha before Cas goes skyward though Dean asks him to do him one more favor and give Bobby back his legs. Afterall he did loose the use of them fighting the fight against evil. And that might be right after Cas tells them he's going to be allowed back home and he does this miracle as a parting gift to show his grace has been restored. All in all I'll miss the trench coat wearing, dead pan, chemistry that Misha has with Dean, but after the apocalypse arc is over the show won't need anymore angels.

And this brings me to another thought-brace yourself. How long will Jensen and Jared want to still play Dean and Sam? The show may still go on but could it without them? I shudder as I write this but to be honest I wouldn't watch if Jensen's beautiful face was no longer going to be viewed. (Yeah-shallow-I know (LOL)And my wheels started to turn about this with the episode of Swap Meat. Because we all know how the writers like to foreshadow other arcs. I saw in my gut how they will solve the "problem" of Jensen or Jared leaving. Just write an episode where one or both of the men get their souls "swapped" into new bodies. Then when the original bodies are killed in the fight. The new bodies (new Actors) will go on playing Dean and Sam. Perfect explanation. And one that might have been used to end the show in the apocalyptic show down between Michael and Lucifer too. But I think the writers are keeping it in their back pocket to use for later. (sighs)
Mar. 27th, 2010 09:44 pm (UTC)
Re: Hi gaelic-its meggin
Hi Meggin! *glomps you* Good to see you, lady!

I hadn't seen Kripke's comment about losing a family member, but if I were a betting gal, which I'm not, but if I were I'd say it's Bobby. I don't know that I really consider Cas "family." He's a true friend, yes, and valued, but his angelic ancestry and the history he has with the boys...yeah, it doesn't feel family to me. It's more in the friend category.

But Bobby? Bobby is Uncle. And Dean's father-figure. And...yeah. Guh, my heart aches thinking about it. The next 7 episodes are just going to kill me dead, I think.

How long will Jensen and Jared want to still play Dean and Sam?

Well, I can tell you this much: if anyone other than Jared and Jensen play Sam and Dean (for longer than part of an episode, re: Swap Meat), I won't watch anymore. Because it wouldn't be Sam and Dean, then. It just wouldn't. It would be the story of two other characters with the same names.

I think that next season will be the last season anyway. The guys' contracts are done, and we're already losing Kripke as head writer guy. If they can keep the guys through S6, we'll be in good shape.

But I wouldn't watch anymore. I'd just ask some friends how the storyline played out (assuming they still watched).

Back to the pretty, though, they were bringing it with the looks this epi. I can't get enough of Dean's expressions. Seriously. :)

Thank you for reading and taking time to comment. See you next week?

Re: Hi gaelic-its meggin - (Anonymous) - Mar. 27th, 2010 10:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Hi gaelic-its meggin - gaelicspirit - Mar. 27th, 2010 11:02 pm (UTC) - Expand
Mar. 28th, 2010 02:15 am (UTC)
First, I just got your email response to my comments on your ff so I will respond to that here (since I have already started it and was going to mention one thing here that you brought up in your email).

So happy to have Supernatural back and to have your rambles back!

I thought this episode had sort of a season 1 feel to it at times. Some scenes and moments and shots were reminiscent of season to me. Plus, Dean looked younger than he has in a few seasons (not season 1 young, but younger). Apparently being engaged has done wonders for Jensen ;)

Having Bobby's wife named Karen was a little weird. Every time you wrote deadKaren - it was a little ominous.

I cracked up at the 'Must be Thursday' comment.

Bobby was absolutely heartbreaking. Especially when you know Jim's story. You wonder how much of that was acting and how much of his real experiences and thoughts on the situation he brought to the story.

I think Sam understands Bobby's desire for more time with the love of his love (i.e. Jessica). So he is more compassionate to the situation.

I figured that because the zombies in this episode and the zombie in CSPWDT were raised differently that's why they had different kill methods. I just go with the flow though.

I am so happy you got and are excited about the CDs. Like I said, I have way to much time on my hands. Hope you enjoy them!

I think the 17th should work - I am trying to figure something out at work (long story). Let's plan on that weekend and I'll let you know if it won't work. I am SO excited to see you as well!
Mar. 28th, 2010 03:08 am (UTC)
LOL! I thought of that after I posted... that you might get a chill at the repeated references to DeadKaren. Heh.

Jensen just... yeah. That is all. :)

Yay for the 17th! I will put it in pencil until I hear from you further.

*off to upload CDs*
Mar. 29th, 2010 05:02 am (UTC)
I love your rambles, I love your brain, I love your eye for detail and your knack for intuiting the little subtle things, and I'm very glad you're around to help me clarify and remember what the heck I just saw.

Especially when I'm so desperately torn between sobbing for Bobby and freaking right the hell OUT! over zombie spit on Sam's face! ;-) Thanks so much for your re-visitation. My heart ached for Jim every blessed moment ...

Edited at 2010-03-29 05:04 am (UTC)
Mar. 29th, 2010 02:32 pm (UTC)
Especially when I'm so desperately torn between sobbing for Bobby and freaking right the hell OUT! over zombie spit on Sam's face...


Seriously, I almost had to look away. That was just... GAAAAACK.

And Bobby broke my heart. He didn't break me...I think that's reserved for Dean...but my heart really hurt at the end of this one.


It's good to see you. :)
Mar. 29th, 2010 08:56 pm (UTC)
I'm so happy that the last stretch of the season is back on TV... as well as your streams of consciousness! I try to watch with as much detail as possible, and your musings and further thoughts make me think more about everything in the show in general and how it connects to the big picture.

Strangely, and sadly, I suppose, I don't get some of their FBI aliases... probably 'cause I'm slightly slow! So, when everyone says the aliases in this episode were from Animal House, I was still scratching my head. :D *Must go look it up*

Anyway, I did enjoy this episode. At first, I thought that Karen was just gonna full out turn evil or something, but I'm glad she didn't, knowing she would hurt Bobby by doing so. Bobby did break my heart though.

At this point, just like the Winchesters, he probably longs for a simpler life. One without the Apocalypse, where everyone (including himself) wasn't in peril. A life where he could hear his wife hum again.

It's hard. I was reminded of my great grandmother in this episode and how whenever I walk into her house, I still look at the spot she used to sit in, only knowing she's not gonna be there.

Like Bobby said, it is harder because he got to see her again and all those memories came rushing back, and then having to do the same thing over again. And also slightly creepy how Death took time out of his probably busy schedule *note sarcasm* to deliver a message to Bobby. I think it was to dampen his spirit and not off him... yet.

Thinking about it just sucks. But, I'd say Apocalyptic stalking is creepy. :)

I did love the fact that Sam and Dean, while investigating soccer dad's house split up with just a look. So glad they're getting their groove back even while the world is falling apart around them. :)

I don't know if this episode was foreshadow for the future of Bobby, but I can't wait for the ride and your ramblings to accompany them.


P.S. I noticed, out of complete random fanfic surfing on my part, that you posted a couple of stories recently. Strange that fanfiction isn't sending me alerts, but I'll check them out soon enough.

Take care!
Mar. 30th, 2010 04:59 pm (UTC)
Re: Pinkchick
Well hello there! It's good to see you. Darn ff.net for dropping the ball on alerts. I'll look forward to your comments if you have the opportunity to read and review anything new. :)

I was reminded of my great grandmother in this episode and how whenever I walk into her house, I still look at the spot she used to sit in, only knowing she's not gonna be there.


Isn't that funny how much we condition ourselves with routine and familiarity? My grandmother always wore Cover Girl powder. Nothing else make-up wise, just the powder. She passed away about 8 years ago now and every time I smell that powder I still instinctively lift my head to look for her.

Don't feel too bad about not getting the alias'. I've seen Animal House (once) but it took my hubs saying "it was this character and this character" for me to really get it. They challenge us, those two! :)

But, I'd say Apocalyptic stalking is creepy.

BWAH!! Okay, I totally agree there! LOL! DEATH, you are one creepy dude.

Thanks so much for reading and taking time to leave your thoughts! See you soon!

Mar. 30th, 2010 07:59 am (UTC)
Just remembered to check your review (I keep forgetting - how unlike me with my razor-sharp memory...?). I found this a strange episode; on first watch I found I had enjoyed it, laughed at the funnies, been grossed out by the yucky bits but was oddly unmoved by the angst. Which wasn't what I'd been expecting, having seen the trailers and read Jim's tweets/FB posts about how he had dealt with that storyline. Then I left it a while and watched again - and suddenly found it a lot more moving and poignant second time around.
Then I picked up the parallel with Heart where Dean was clearly willing to take the burden of killing for Bobby (even though as some other comments have pointed out above, it was something Bobby would need to do himself), just as he had with Sam and Maddison and that was very sad. And the scene at the end with the overhead shot of the pyre, Bobby flanked by the boys looking sadly diminished in his chair - *sniff*.
There were some very nice scenic shots in this one (and I don't mean Jensen who is always incredibly scenic!!) - a great one of the Impala with Bobby's house in the background, Bobby in the yard in the night waiting for the zombies, then that one of Karen's pyre at the end as the crane pulls the camera up and back so you can see the rest of the scrapyard.
I have of course now got the screen cap of Dean leaning against the Impala, and the close up of his hard stare, one eyebrow quirked...I shall have to look again (what a hardship!) to see the shot you were talking about between the cell bars...
But when I watch again, I think I am going to get more of the emotion each time; I feel this one is going to grow on me.
Oh and the fact they are out of order, I'd read that somewhere else and that actually helps to know - hopefully when they bring out the DVDs they will correct that, but even if they don't, I am going to reorder my copies so when I rewatch the series I will rewatch the right way round!
Mar. 30th, 2010 05:04 pm (UTC)
Y'know... the funny thing is, I haven't re-watched a single episode (during the season, I mean) since S2. Once I get the DVDs, sure I watch them then, but I don't go back while the season is running to re-watch.

I'm not sure why that is. I can think of 100 excuses -- not enough time being one of them -- but I actually, honestly, don't want to until I know how the season's going to end.

It's okay, you can say it. I know I'm weird.

Then I picked up the parallel with Heart where Dean was clearly willing to take the burden of killing for Bobby [...] just as he had with Sam and Maddison and that was very sad.

This is so, so true. I mean even though in retrospect Dean saw that both men had to do this on their own, he was willing to take on that pain just to spare them from it. And it broke him. Perhaps not in the same way as Sam and Bobby, but just as bad. *sniff*

I have of course now got the screen cap of Dean leaning against the Impala, and the close up of his hard stare, one eyebrow quirked...

*grabby hands* You willing to share? :) Yeah, that and the shot through the bars while in jail are two that had me going "YUM."

Thank you for coming by and taking time to comment! :) See you later,

(no subject) - amberdreams - Mar. 30th, 2010 09:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - gaelicspirit - Mar. 30th, 2010 11:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
Mar. 30th, 2010 07:36 pm (UTC)
Hi Gaelic! Better late than never, as they say. Loved your ramble and enthusiasm to have the boys back. I agree - somehow this shorter hellatus seemed longer than the previous one. Anyway, they're baaackkk!

And back they are. I really enjoyed this episode. Jeremy Carver definitely is at his best when writing about personal relationships - usually between the boys, but also any "family". My heart broke for Bobby - I can't imagine what it would be like to have deceased love ones back in my life for a "visit" knowing they would be taken away again. :(

I must also say that I love this new director - he's a keeper. Love those close-ups of our beautiful boys and great transition shots. The whole episode felt so fresh. That one shot of Dean standing by the car in Bobby's junk yard watching the house with the zoom-in to a close-up - just WOW!

Regarding Bobby being the town drunk, I suspect he was for a very long time after he had to kill (think of all the liquor bottles we saw after Dean went to hell). As he became a demon hunter, it continued to be a good cover.

I thought Dean was fantastic in this from his quirks to his very sincere concern/protectiveness for Bobby both when Karen was there and after she was gone again. Word is that this episode was supposed to air before MBV, and it would make more sense to see Dean feel like he's lost everyone (even Bobby who seems broken) and needs help from God because there's no one else to help him down here. :(

Loved the great action scenes with the zombies in the junk yard and in Bobby's house. I'm not sure that Bobby told the boys the complete message from Death, though. I don't see Bobby as the one who is keeping Sam from saying "yes" to Luci, although Sam would not want to disappoint Bobby (or Dean) again. And I'm with you about Bobby not making it through the season, but that would be the greatest loss since BDW, in my opinion. And I'm not sure that Dean could handle another loss of another "father". Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

Well, I'm really looking forward to next week's episode - and, of course, your ramble. Catch ya' then.

Mar. 30th, 2010 07:54 pm (UTC)
There's a line in Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring that I think aptly applies to the Irish as well -- both those by birth and those by spirit: A wizard is never late. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.

And here you are. :)

You're so right -- had we seen these in the order in which the writers apparently intended, Dean's plea would have been that much more poignant and necessary. But we're a clever lot. We can turn it around in our heads, yeah?

I don't see Bobby as the one who is keeping Sam from saying "yes" to Luci, although Sam would not want to disappoint Bobby (or Dean) again...

I've only seen it the one time, but I think that Bobby said he was one of the reasons Sam hadn't said yes to Lucifer (with a 'yet' implied). I think that could be true -- Dean is one BIG reason as is Sam's one (very large) sense of pride and need to Make Things Better after he (as he sees it) started the apocalypse. But I think taht both boys see Bobby as a father-figure in their own ways (Dean moreso for a plethora of reasons) and I think that Sam has so many hang-ups with the way his relationship with John spun out there before the end that he would do just about anything to NOT disappoint Bobby.

And I'm not sure that Dean could handle another loss of another "father". Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

Agree on so many different levels. They worry me with their vague implications. Darn boys!

Thank you for coming by -- I've missed you! I hope to see you on a review page sometime in the near future...if RL lets me get one of the two stories I'm working on actually written... :)

Mar. 31st, 2010 04:25 am (UTC)
Ok, FINALLY saw the episode! LA was good, but I was really missing my boys. Geez, it's a wonder I didn't like totally go into SPN withdrawl/comatose after having to wait nearly a week! But, hey, life happens. Well, I gotta go to bed, but now I am finally clear read your ramble without getting spoiled! Will read/comment tomorrah! :)
Mar. 31st, 2010 10:47 pm (UTC)
Welcome home! Look forward to hearing from you.
Mar. 31st, 2010 12:10 pm (UTC)
Thanks again for writing a synopsis - makes it easier to remember.
I never knew they changed the episodes around, which made me all angry that there was NOTHING from MBV. But ok, at least this way, it makes sense. Also, why Bobby wasn't there when the detoxed Sam. Too much for Bobby Singer *sigh*
Poor man.
I'm pretty sure they asked Jim Beaver about what he can act. I don't know, but I have the feeling this was written only for Bobby - and therefore for Jim. And considering that Jensen, for his performance in All Hell breaks loose II got a screened partition of the set to not be bothered by others, only a camera and Kim Manners, than I'm pretty certain they wouldn't do less for Jim. Ok, it's not Manners, but...manners, right?

What I distinctly disliked was the lack of reaction from Dean to the scratched-open coffin in the cemetery. Because... come on. They could include this little titbit of true PTSD for Dean, it wouldn't even take much time. Just a little facial expression. But no, not even a flinch. Why didn't they? This coffin was CREEPY!
And while we're at it: how about a strange look to Dean when he says "They were DEAD" - you know, a hint: "so, you were too. And you're not turned, are you???" I'd have liked that. More angst.

Now, reading your synopsis, I suddenly understand why Sam could be so quick at Singers Salvage: all zombies were THERE, not in town. Ha! So, that's why there are so many: all of them came to Bobby and Dean. Would be about the right amount of dead-guys.

To the Zombie-Problem (aka: how to kill'em): How about the Zombie-Chick was resurrected by a Greek spell, these here were different? Dunno, just a suggestion. But you're right, it doesn't add up, sadly. But it'll be SO hard to nail 18 Zombies into their graves :-D
Why wasn't Rumsfeld there? I'd have liked a Zombie-Dog. *sigh* Maybe too much for Bobby: first his wife, then his dog... like kicking a man when he's already down.

I wondered a bit about Sam. He was... like s2 Sam. A little harder, but he HAD to kill the kid (and boy, did I weep for that poor Sheriff, she did lose her son TWICE and now her husband too...). He's... detached, and yet strangely, naively hopeful: "but you'll be ok?" I mean... ow can he be? SAM went off the rails when Dean died, and Bobby had to kill his wife TWICE. How can anyone be ok after that? Dean at least didn't ask that, he knew. So, what's this with Sam? Maybe it's because he didn't have to go through detox?
See, I've always had this idea that Sam was like he was from the start of s5, because he was *fingersnip* suddenly clean. No detox, no horror, he didn't have to FIGHT for being ok again. So, I've always thought he'd never get Dean, his loss of hope and the depth of despair, because in a way, he was let off the hook too easily. He'd always been let off a little easily, in my opinion. Except for Jess, of course. And Dean's death. But, you know, nearly EVERY time he slipped because HE made a mistake, Dean caught him, helped him up. So, I hope the detox from the previous-really-this episode will make him clean not only physically, but mentally too. He has to FIGHT, dig his nails in, hang on. Survive.

Knowing they mixed the episodes up makes "Dead men don't wear plaids" a little less unbearable. Knowing it was supposed to come first... well, I can understand why it didn't refer to anything from MBV.

BUT: What.The.Hell????

This was really a stupid, stupid mistake, and I sure hope they won't do it again. Made me real, real disappointed while watching. Couldn't even enjoy all the gore :-(

Catch ya next ep (Friday? I can't stay up that long on Thursday ;-))
Mar. 31st, 2010 10:47 pm (UTC)
They could include this little titbit of true PTSD for Dean, it wouldn't even take much time. Just a little facial expression. But no, not even a flinch. Why didn't they? This coffin was CREEPY!

OMG so TRUE! I will admit my mind didn't go there because I was focused on Bobby (which is where the writers probably wanted us to be so that we missed things like this) but YOU, my friend were too clever!!

I wonder, though, if we might get some more PTSD-ness from Dean as we draw closer to the end of the season and a showdown between our heroes, their souls, and the angels/devils vying for them.

But you're right, it doesn't add up, sadly. But it'll be SO hard to nail 18 Zombies into their graves :-D

I just wish that somewhere in the dialog they would have made the connection that our assumption is right and shown us how the boys knew.

Y'know, like perhaps... at the cemetery, when they dug up Clay's empty grave? For example:


Dean: Something stinks.

Sam: Well, it's not Clay Thompson, because he's gone.

Dean: You thinking zombie?

Sam: What else could it be?

Dean: (sighing) Swell. We have to find a way to get this guy back to his grave and stake him in it. Gonna be a fun night.

Sam: There is lore out there that says a headshot'll do the trick.

Dean: 'Cause that worked so well with Angela. She tackled you like a high-school fullback after taking a bullet to the forehead.

(helping to explain why Dean pulls his gun as they lead DeadClay out into the street)

>>Later, at Roy's Diner, after Bobby reveals that DEATH is behind this.

Dean: No way are we getting twenty people back to twenty graves...

Sam: So...headshot?

Dean: We got a choice?

Sam: Well, it wasn't necromancy that rejuvenated these bodies. It was a horseman. I'm thinking lore has to be rewritten.

Dean: (nodding) Desperate times, desperate measures.

*aaaannnnd scene*

Maybe it's because he didn't have to go through detox?
See, I've always had this idea that Sam was like he was from the start of s5, because he was *fingersnip* suddenly clean. No detox, no horror, he didn't have to FIGHT for being ok again.

This is a really good point and one I'll probably think about for awhile. Because as the saying goes, anything worth having is worth fighting for. And Lord knows Dean has had to fight every step of the way. He's fought so long and hard he's had to ask for help.

But Sam... though he has been through detox (twice, now) that one time returning him to normal could have had an effect of... well, taking it for granted.

Like I said... I'll have to think on that one. :)

Thanks for coming by!!
(no subject) - marlowe78 - Apr. 1st, 2010 06:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
Apr. 1st, 2010 03:51 pm (UTC)
Hey Gaelic-fighting sickness, but I simply HAD to jump on quick before tonight's new ep to let you know I read, and as usual, loved your words.
I think it was very obvious that this one was supposed to come before MBV, and I wish they could have fit it in that way as the lack of continuity REALLY bugged me on this one. And I know that they've done this a couple of times before but, to me, more seamlessly-this time it was glaring, IMO. But that aside, I thought it was a better stand-alone than most we've gotten this season. I've lost it some for Bobby since the end of S4, mostly due to the writing-their making him more a crotchety old man, surrogate father figure, than a caring(notice I put this first), crotchety old man, surrogate father figure being the main reason. And for that reason, the BobbyAngst didn't get to me as much as it probably would have a couple of seasons ago. I CAN appreciate how hard this must have been for JB, though. I thought his best scene was when he was talking about his dead wife humming while she cooked. And I LOVED the look he exchanged with Dean after having to kill her-the looks on both of their faces owned that scene, IMO. Awesome.
As usual, it was The Dean who kept me glued to the screen, though. This new director did a wonderful job. His close-ups reminded me of Kim Manners way of shooting the guys and Jensen!-JUST GUH!!!-through-out the entire episode! Loved that this director seemed to realize, like Kim, exactly how the camera truly loves our guy-his waiting in full-on hunter mode while leaning against the Impala has become one of the most buzzed about shots of the ep-absolutely gorgeous. I loved the grave-digging scene, too-the whole thing from when they first start looking around with their flashlights to the straight cut from the shovel going into the ground to Sam in the grave with Dean looking down at him from that sexy squat position of his(and how ON EARTH! does he make that position look SO. DAMNED. SEXY. Gotta love the man, eh?!)
Loved that Dean FINALLY got to EAT his pie! And those two scenes were also probably my favorites of the ep.
The coughing, phlegmy Ezra Jones/Sam scene was probably the grossest-and I only say probably because it made me cringe just a tiny bit more than the dead kid advancing on his mother while holding his father's intestines. Ew. They really brought the gore in these last two, didn't they? Kripke must have love watching those! :)

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