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So this has been a tough week with a couple of 'off' days... but I'll whine about that later. To try to distract myself, I posted some thinky thoughts on Tuesday on a site called Supernatural Fans Online about what I'd seen thus far spoiler-wise about Season 5, what I'd like to see in Season 5, and what I felt about a Season 6.

Not all thoughts were met with agreement, which is actually very cool because that generates dialog. It feels good to be one with the group, but I'm always curious to see what others think, so... I thought I'd post the same thoughts here and see if you all were up for chatting.

I don't usually stick my head out from behind my Couch Of Safety to speculate -- especially this early in the hiatus -- but I'm having a very off day and thought maybe this might be a safe place to chat and wonder a bit with ya'll.

I saw the spoilers about Anna returning and Lucifer being an actual being and not a disembodied entity. And I've been thinking a lot about this whole will they/won't they have a Season 6 and Jared's Butch and Sundance hope of an ending.

My thoughts never really order themselves until I'm in the middle of them, so if it's okay, I'll ramble. Feel free to ignore.

Sam's Powers

I think Ruby's telling him that he basically blew his wad when he killed Lilith meant that he's on empty when it comes to the juice... but not that he no longer has need of it. The Levee episode showed us how strong a hold this addiction had on Sam -- physically. Not just because he 'believed' he needed it to stop Lilith. So, I suspect one of the things they will be dealing with is a way to step Sam down off of the demon blood so that a) lack of it doesn't kill him and b) intake of it doesn't turn him full-on evil.

Dean's gonna have his work cut out for him there...

I am in wonder about what they'll do with Sam mentally -- going from "I'm stronger than that now; now I can kill [demons]" to basically once more riding shotgun in the valley of disillusionment. Since the moment this all began, he's rolled through a gamut of bizarreness: dreams of death, telekenisis (which, why didn't they do more with that??), demon exorcism, demon slaying.

Everything he'd been taught to hate, hunt, and kill.

Hmmm... perhaps there's something to that. Maybe he's the devil's advocate (no pun intended) for the Winchester family on purpose. Maybe the fact that he's always been situated in the gray while his father and brother rode hard in black and white will come into play while Lucifer walks the earth.

Brother vs Brother

My very sincere hope is that we're done with this. I don't want us to simply return to how they were in Season 1 -- it's been too long and too much has happened. And after what they've survived, suffered, and witnessed... there is no going back.

But, with Dean saddled with Micheal's duty of defeating Lucifer and Sam given the mantle of The One To Release Lucifer, they need each other more than ever. The demon newsletter circulated rather quickly when Dean sold his soul to save his brother. And once we found out that the righteous man who broke the first seal was the only one that could stop it... well, the struggles the boys faced from both factions became a lot more meaningful.

It was a season of struggle that leaves me weary when looking back. They fought the demons, 'cause they always fight demons -- but this time they were fighting both demons that wanted Lucifer to rise and demons that didn't. They fought angels because for some totally baffling reason there were two sides to Team Angel as well. And because of all that... they also fought each other.

So, enough, I say. You have so much out there against you, boys. There isn't really anyone else you can trust completely -- you have to be able to trust your brother. Have to.

Or you'll make me cry.

Anna

Okay, I know that we as a fandom really want our boys free from the troublesome burden that is a female companion so that we can fantasize to our heart's content, but... I want Dean to have some peace. And if that's in the arms of an angel, then so be it. Sam got Jess. And though it was doomed, he still has that time in his life to look back on, and, if he chooses to see it this way, he can say, "See? It's possible."

Dean doesn't have that. Not even with Cassie, though he wanted to, it seemed.

When Anna appeared in the back of the Impala, scaring the crap out of them, and Dean's first instinct was to say, "You look terrific," my heart crackled a little. She, of course, gave him the snarky "so not the time" reply, but that was such an honest reaction from him that I caught my breath. And, it kinda makes sense that he would only connect to that extent with a supernatural being. 

I mean, seriously, none of the Winchester men have luck with women -- regardless of Dean's rougish reputation. John loved Mary with everything in him and he lost her, sending him tailspinning down a path that has basically consumed his whole family. He apparently sought and found temporary comfort in Kate's arms, but even that was doomed because he left his family (the boys) out of the equation.

Similarly, Sam had Jess, loved her, lost her. Since then, we've seen him make hesitent connections with the preacher's daughter in Hookman, Sarah Blake (my personal favorite), and Madison. I'm not really counting the doc-that-could-have-been-a-siren-but-wasn't. That was pretty much the same kind of one-night-stand that his brother is infamous for.

And Dean... he hasn't had to suffer the loss of a woman he loves, but I think that's purposeful. Getting close to someone like that destroys you (or so he's seen) and he's got enough out to destroy him. But an angel? Hey, not only are they (hopefully) the good guys, but they are powerful, know The Secret, and can stand next to him in a fight without him having to fear for the fragility that is their life.

I want to see him with her again.

I want that to be something that comforts him in Season 5 when the salvation of his brother's spirit and soul and the weight of his 'duty' becomes too much to bear. I want another shirtless love scene to Bad Company or (like this would ever happen) Zeppelin.

Only minus the Titanic-like Hand On Steamy Window.

And... I kinda don't care if Sam gets any all season. I don't mean to sound cruel, but hey, he had demon nooky several times in Season 4 and I think he needs to just take a breath.

Bobby

I love this man. I do. Aside from the boys, if there was a single actor I'd like to meet from this show, it would be Jim Beaver. Even over JDM. Bobby has been the surrogate father that Dean has so desperately needed over the past 4 years, stepping in (albiet a bit reluctantly at first) to fill in the gaping hole that John left with his sacrifice -- and even before.

I think he is Dean's core in ways that Sam could never be. Sam is Dean's purpose -- his mission in life (over and above Saving the World and Killing Lucifer). But Bobby is the hand at Dean's back pushing him forward. Dean's psyche was built around following orders and even though he's done pretty damn good on his own, he still needs that touchstone. He still needs someone to shake him and snap him out of it... someone that he will work to not disappoint. To not let down.

And because of that, I think Bobby will die in Season 5.

I think that it's going to come to a point where it won't be enough for Dean to simply do what the angels say he should do because they have dicked him around one too many times. It's not going to be a clear-cut case of defeating Lucifer = saving Sam. His black is fading to gray quickly and I think that in S5 the lines he's carefully stayed inside all of his life are going to be completely gone and he's going to need a 'thing' that catapults him forward into his apparent destiny.

I think that may be the death of Bobby.

Lucifer

I think it's kinda cool that he's going to be a man. And according to the description, one that will almost be hard to believe as evil. Totally makes sense to me. First of all, he was an angel. The Morning Star. In my reality, I've been taught that the devil is seductive, offering the easy solution, the path that 'feels good.'

It's hard to walk the straight and narrow. It's lonely and sometimes cold and the only thing pulling you through it is the promise of Heaven after the fighting is done. But the devil says, here, take this shortcut... have this instant gratification... let yourself feel good.

Why would anyone believe that of a nasty, demonic-looking, monster? I am anxious to see how his role in this whole thing is played out, and I'm already geared up to see how Dean will defeat him. Because I refuse to believe that it will be otherwise.

Dean is my hero. Simple as that.

Butch and Sundance and the Fate of Season 6

I would flat out watch Jensen Ackles in anything. I'd watch him sit on a bar stool in an empty room and read the phone book aloud. Just to watch his hands, listen to his inflections, let my eyes fall on the way his boot heels hook on the rungs of the stool.

However, that said, I would be crushed if, for the sake of ratings and money, they pushed this story, these brothers, past their prime and without the creator of the series. I watched X-files for all nine seasons, but after Season 6, it was out of a weird sence of loyalty and mild curiousity and not as the true fan I'd been before. And... I taped them and watched them later. Y'know?

Jared has said he wants the brothers to go out fighting. At first, I was in the "bite your tongue, Padalecki!" group... but I think I'm looking at it a bit differently. Dean's line says it all to me: "When Dad told me I might have to kill you, it was only if I couldn't save you; Sam, if it's the last thing I do, I'm gonna save you."

This all began as a search for their dad. It got a little tangled when John gave himself up for Dean, but they could have gotten past that and still carried on. But when Sam died, and Dean didn't save him, the world as they knew it ended. That moment was Dean's apocolypse. So, they were carried into a world of deals with demons, survival of two very different Hells, and destinies that tore them apart.

They canNOT survive without the other. They just can't. In my mind, there can't be a happy ending that is one going before the other. Ending it with them out there fighting the good fight still ends it with the very real possibility of one going first.

And that would kill the other.

So, what I'm currently thinking this far out from the start of Season 5... the only solution is for them to die together. Die together fighting and therefore winning. But... I like Jared's idea of Butch and Sundance. Because... at the end of B&S, they're both shot to hell, hiding in that old ramshackle building, bandaging each other up and bantering through painful pants for air. Sundance ties Butch's gun to his hand and pulls him to his feet. And they look at each other and though they say one thing with their mouths, their eyes are expressing gratitude and brotherly love as they run out of the building.

The image freezes and you hear -- hear -- a hail of gunfire. You are left to speculate if they made it or not.

Now, I wouldn't want it to end so that there was the possibility of the bad guys walking away after taking out our boys, but the idea that you don't know what happens next for sure, but that it looks as though they die together is somewhat appealing to me.

Because, if they were to complete their six-year contract with, say, a TV (or, God-can-you-imagine Big Screen) movie, there could be ways to explain how they escaped death when the screen froze. And... selfishly, fanfic speculation could continue.

I could be swayed from this thought rather easily, I'm sure, but that's where I am mid-June of the 2009 hiatus. I do hope for a better solution -- one where they are rewarded for all of their struggle, for fighting the good fight, for sacrificing so much. I'd love for them to have peace and companionship and the kind of life that makes each of them happy. I know that's what Zach elluded to in the finale. But I don't trust him -- and obviously neither does Dean. How can you trust someone who abused their power to the point of playing you against your own brother??

For me, what would be worse than them going out ala B&S would be for them to keep fighting, never able to stop, never able to truly live... never going 'home.'

And as far as a S6? I really don't know that I'm up for it. I love how this story has been told. How in looking back you can see the plan.

From Mary's horrified expression of realization when she runs back up to Baby Sam's room in the Pilot to S4's In the Beginning when we see her make her deal. From Roy LeGrange saying he looked into Dean's heart and saw a man with a purpose that hasn't been fulfilled to Zach telling Dean that he is destined to take out Lucifer ala Micheal. From Baby Sam tasting demon blood to Big Sam drinking from Ruby. From YED's search for the Special Kid that would open the Devil Gate and free Lilith AND the SK that would defeat Lilith and release Lucifer...

There is a method to the madness that I haven't seen tie a show together like this before. It's captured me and possessed me and catipulted me into storytelling and has been the catalyst for friendships I wouldn't have otherwise had... but it's worn me out. And I... kinda need to know how it ends. Before the end is too lost in the Hollywood Machine to satisfy me.

But... that's just me.

As it gets closer to the September 10th premiere date, I'll be more avidly avoiding spoilers. Especially anything related to the actual storyline. I really enjoyed being taken by surprise with the Season 4 premiere, so I'm going to try for a repeat performance.

PS
For those of you reading, Chapter 2 of Desolation Angels should be posted a week from today, if all goes well.

Comments

( 29 Tall Tales — Tell Me A Story )
deangirl1
Jun. 18th, 2009 05:14 pm (UTC)
A few random thinkies right back atcha... as I too am in a bit of a downward spiral...
Re; Sam's powers. It seems that they are going to be pursuing this. It makes me a bit ticked as they gave up on Dean's PTSD pretty quickly -- a storyline that could have been very compelling - but phft and it's done. He's over it. I just don't have the same patience or sympathy for Sam's addiction.
I think that Dean has always been more grey than he would care to admit. He's always had that core of compassion -- I think it makes him more of a hero that he sees the grey but is compelled to act according to the black and white orders of his father.
I also think we will see the brothers working together again. After Sam's comments on Dean always taking control and not listening to him, I've been really watching for that in my hiatus re-watching of everything (traditional and unavoidable). And it just isn't true on any level, in any episode. Dean always listened to Sam and almost always did what Sam wanted.
As for Anna? I love her. I love Julie too. I'm so glad she will be back, but I don't think we will see her "with" Dean. I think that as much as he is attracted to her, the comfort they found in each other was mutual that one night. I don't believe she feels that need anymore. I believe she care about Dean -- don't get me wrong. I also think that Dean may make his usual comments, but I don't think he would go there with an angel... For all his bluster, and disgust for the "bad" angels (that seems like such an oxymoron! Is it possible to love this show more?), he still has a reverence for those he sees as God's soldiers. But ANNA! I love that she is kick ass and snarky and I so, so hope that show can keep writing her well -- my only complaint about show is their utter inability to write female characters -- Ellen and Meg being the only other exceptions.
Bobby! How do I love Jim Beaver??? Such a wonderful, sweet, self-deprecating, talented, intelligent, funny man... I have had the honor of "meeting" him at a convention (and have the pic to prove it...). His take on the relationship between Bobby and the boys might surprise you a little. He doesn't really see that he has more of or a special bond with Dean -- he sees it as being more equal for both boys -- interesting... I don't know if they will kill off Bobby. I think your theory is sound, but I would hate to see them lose him. Both the boys and the show....
In my mind, Dean will kill Lucifer - a la Michael. No other outcome is acceptable to me either. Dean is my hero too. Obsessively so. And part of me is very afraid they will screw this up -- but they got it soooo right in his killing of the YED... and Kripke has NOT let me down yet. (though I still want a little more explanation for what made Dean break in hell -- cuz it wasn't just "I can't take anymore...")
The Butch and Sundance image for the ending was actually first voiced by Jensen several seasons ago.... I think this is an image that may come all the way from Kripke originally.... I like the idea for the same reasons you do. In point of fact, in "history", according to "legend", Sundance ends up back in the states...
Season 6. Yes. I want more -- but only if Kripke stays on. Even having him as a "consultant" isn't enough for me. He is the glue, he is the story teller that has brought this epic story to us and I'd hate to see some lame attempt to imitate it. So yes with Kripke and NO without him....
Ok. I know I've just bored the crap out of you, but there it is. My brains on a plate....
And I'm a spoiler-whore. Can't help myself. But I CAN keep my mouth shut.
gaelicspirit
Jun. 18th, 2009 05:46 pm (UTC)
I think it makes him more of a hero that he sees the grey but is compelled to act according to the black and white orders of his father.

This is so true and so well put! I love looking at it this way. Thanks for that. :)

And it just isn't true on any level, in any episode. Dean always listened to Sam and almost always did what Sam wanted.

I like that you said this. I need to think on it more, but I can totally see the truth in this.

I agree on the PTSD, too. I mean, perhaps I can see where Dean pushed it down because things became more pressing for him to pay attention to, like Sam's blood addiction and angels pushing their way into his life at every turn. But I have a hard time believing that it just... went away.

As sick as this sounds, it would be nice if he still had to deal with some of that now that he's got Sam "back"... you know what I mean?

That's SO great that you got to meet Jim! *grin* I would hate to see them lose him, too. That's another place where I hope I'm wrong.

I didn't realize the B&S comment originated with Jensen. That's really interesting since Jared has seemed to kinda pick up the torch with that. Makes it seem like a dual wish. :)

And yeah, I think Sera Gamble is made of awesome and someone like her would probably write some fantastic MotW shows, but without Eric at the helm, it would be severely lacking. This is one show that I so do not want to see ruined by popularity.

I mean, I'll watch until there's nothing left, but it wouldn't be the same.

You never bore me.
deangirl1
Jun. 18th, 2009 05:58 pm (UTC)
I completely forgot to mention... that I was totally an X-Files fan -- but had the same experience -- watched to the end but it did get a bit painful - I love Robert Patrick (and liked him on X-Files too) but never got over missing Mulder... I first noticed Kim Manners there and he is actually one of the reasons I started watching SPN. Jim Beaver's first appearance was met with "ELLESWORTH!" as I loved him on Deadwood...
(This is completely a secret, but I'm trying to get a Kim Manners Tribute Convention up and running for January... I hope to have a heavy SPN AND X-Files presence...)
gaelicspirit
Jun. 18th, 2009 06:10 pm (UTC)
re: Secret con... OOOOO!!! Sounds like fun! Good luck -- having worked on a fancon committee for the first time this year, I know it's no easy feat. :)

re: X-files... I didn't mind Robert Patrick so much. His story was actually a little bit interesting with the little boy lost angle and all. But OMG how much did I hate Monica Whatshername. Gah.

re: Would you believe that I had no idea who anyone was when I started watching SPN? I had seen Jensen in Smallville, but just as Lana's hot boyfriend that totally went psycho. If I hadn't seen "Lawrence, KS 22 years ago" on the bottom of the screen during the pilot after having heard DMB's "Out of My Hands" played for the previews prior... I might have missed out on all the magic.

No worries, though. I made up for lost time with everybody's previous works. Except Deadwood. Haven't seen that. Yet.
deangirl1
Jun. 18th, 2009 08:12 pm (UTC)
Let me just push you in the direction of Deadwood -- like NOW! Shakespeare+cursing+western pretty much sums it up.... Ian McShane is his usual wonderful self... Timothy Oliphant... and of course the wonderful Jim Beaver!
Hmmm -- the dialogue is THAT wonderful, but the cursing is intense -- I like that kinda thing...
gaelicspirit
Jun. 18th, 2009 08:15 pm (UTC)
Maybe it's something I can talk the hubs into watching with me.

He won't hang with me and the boys... but we did watch Sons of Anarchy together and he dug that.

I'll give it a go.

*searches through Netflix*
deangirl1
Jun. 18th, 2009 09:59 pm (UTC)
Seriously - my life is the epitome of suck-i-tude, but the one thing that I won the lottery on was my hub. He is totally indoctrinated! We started watching together because we both like horror and then he watched (and re-watched) patiently as I became utterly obsessed. And then this year, he was more excited about some of the episodes than I was! He buys me swag all the time... of course, he owes Dean for a lot.... ahem.... He's now teaching a Popular Culture course and is having his students watch Supernatural and keep a journal. He's also going to show Ten Inch Hero as an example of a romcom! And I even have him making random non sequitur comments about the show.... tee hee...
pinkphoenix1985
Jun. 18th, 2009 06:52 pm (UTC)
For the first time since S1, I think that I'm going to be spoiler free for the major plot stuff :D

re: Sam's powers- I'm with you BUT I want them to have him in conflict with them and to actually show the conflict (not since S2ish have we seen Sam conflicted about his powers- and although they tried to show it in S4 it wasn't enough and it was focused more on how Dean was handling knowing about Sam's powers)

brother vs, brother- YES! YES! YES!!!! although I do think that they need to deal what happened at the end of S4 BUT I don't want that to take over the entire of S5

Anna- yes and no- I wouldn't mind seeing her in S5 BUT I don't want the whole LI thing to go on with her and Dean- they should deal with it in an episode and leave it at that. I would like to see her interact with Castiel more and be on the boys' side in that regard.

Bobby- yeah, I see where you're headed and I agree. The one thing that bugs me is that he's supposedly a support to both boys and honestly I just see him supporting and being there for Dean which is fine but it just mirrors in a way the fact that John and Dean had a similar relationship while Sam didn't. I just want them to say it out right that Sam doesn't have that kind of relationship BECAUSE he has Dean to serve that role.

Lucifer- I'm so excited about this character! I hope that they don't disappoint me :(

S6- yeah, I'm with you on that. IF Kripke does have some more story to tell and he also signs on to S6 then I'll be thrilled if not I'd be upset but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't watch S6 (I stuck by Charmed after season 3-4 as well as the last season of Gilmore Girls).

Although, my ideal ending for the show would be a reflection of the ending of the pilot- the boys all bleedy and hurt and they've saved the day yet they still have work to do- both boys throw weapons into the truck of the Impala and glanced at each other with a grin and say 'We've got work to do' end show :D

Edited at 2009-06-18 06:53 pm (UTC)
gaelicspirit
Jun. 18th, 2009 08:06 pm (UTC)
I would like to see her interact with Castiel more and be on the boys' side in that regard.

Oooo! That's interesting. I didn't even go there, but now that you bring it up... *ponders*

I just want them to say it out right that Sam doesn't have that kind of relationship BECAUSE he has Dean to serve that role.

I like how you said this. Because that's always been in the back of my mind; Sam doesn't need the leader/guider/protector figure because he's always had Dean. And Dean... has had to take what he can from those that are around long enough to offer him something. And personally, I kinda think that even though Bobby is a mentor to both, he has more of a soft spot for Dean. I can't quite pin-point what makes me see it that way; just a vibe I get where Bobby loves Sam, but he'd do anything for Dean. *shrug*

That's probably my own bias sneaking in there.

both boys throw weapons into the truck of the Impala and glanced at each other with a grin and say 'We've got work to do' end show

Y'know, if this is the way they choose to go, I'll be grinning because it will have been a damn good ride. And... then I can write their future whatever way I see it that helps my heart.

And if they pull a B&S... it will STILL have been a damn good ride. And I'll probably write something about them limping off to their picket fences living under a rock-star alias with their wives and babies sticking it to the bad guys on the down low.

No matter when it ends, we're all going to be lonely for awhile.



pinkphoenix1985
Jun. 18th, 2009 08:32 pm (UTC)
I don't even want to think of the show ending!!!

re: Bobby, yeah I think that he does love both boys but seriously? his love for Sam isn't shown like it is for Dean (and possibly it is much less than his love for Dean) and I think that it reinforces my theory that that's because Dean is everything for Sam. It's similar to what has been said about John's relationship to his boys. In a odd way even though Dean is the one who seemly "needs" Sam whereas Sam is more independent- I think that in reality it's actually the opposite- Sam doesn't need to interact with the outside world because he has Dean to do the interacting for him. If that makes sense ;) and I think that shows in mystery spot and before 4x01 when Sam cut himself off from everyone.

Either way would work for me actually although obviously I'm leaning towards mine ;P
I would like it to end on note that either they're both dead OR that they continue to hunt together because that's what they do.

I think that it's suitable that in fanfic there will be a future for them and that they describe the next generation. It's not so suitable for the actual show in my opinion



simplycolourful
Jun. 18th, 2009 07:16 pm (UTC)
I agree with EVERYTHING! :)

Especially the due date on series... I guess there's a reason I never watched the last seasons of Charmed...

Also I've never seen Butch and Sundance (big mistake on my part, I know) but judging on the ending it would be perfect for Supernatural... It's just not a story with a happy ever after... you know?
gaelicspirit
Jun. 18th, 2009 08:07 pm (UTC)
It's just not a story with a happy ever after... you know?

Yeah, I know what you mean. And there's something tragically beautiful about that. :)
xwacky
Jun. 18th, 2009 07:19 pm (UTC)
Not surprisingly, your thoughts very much reflected mine. I'm terrible at putting together thinky thoughts, so I'll just ramble:

As to Sam's telekinesis power, I'm glad they haven't done more on that. I kinda don't want to see Sam as a "Jedi" any more than I want to see Dean as an archangel. I agree with you that after killing Lilith, Sam's demonic power was reduced to none existent. However, his eyes did turn black at one point before Lilith died. So there is a repercussion to his demon blood addiction. I don't want to see the writers sweep that under the rug, pretending he is still the old Sam just because he doesn't have the freaky mind power anymore.

With that being said, I'm with you on the brother vs. brother issue. I don't want to see Sam and Dean fighting against each other on different sides. And I don't think they would. I'd much prefer seeing Sam traverse close to the precipice of good and normal without actually falling over. I think a character is much more interesting if he makes his own choices rather than falling victim to his destiny. I sincerely hope Sam, under Dean's watchful eyes and help, never becomes a creature Dean has to kill.

Speaking of what Dean will kill, I also believe he is going to be the one who actually delivers the final shot (or blow) that ends Lucifer, like what he had done to YED. I'd even venture as far to predict he might get his hands on the missing Colt again before S5 ends.

As to Anna, I am one of those who liked her very much. This is not to say I necessarily want to see a romantic story arc between those two. Although imo, the love making between her and Dean at the back of the Impala was the most romantic moment on SPN. Added with the music from Bad Company, it gives the classic James Dean-ish semblance I so loved.

Of all the girls he encountered on the show, I think Anna is the perfect female counterpart of Dean. They are essentially the opposite sides of the same coin. Anna's super-being power notwithstanding, both of them are soldiers with a rebellious heart. When Dean told Anna she took his words right out of his mouth, it aptly established they share the same temperament as well.

I'm not at all surprised Anna is coming back in S5. In fact, I'm relieved. Her brief appearances in the finale's story arc screamed setup to me. It would be terrible story telling if she disappeared into oblivion just like that.

I don't want to see Bobby die. I see Bobby as both the momma and poppa Dean should have had but never did. I see Bobby as atoned to Dean's vulnerability in the way not even Dean himself or Sam comprehends. So yeah, I'm 100% in agreement with what you said: "he is Dean's core in ways that Sam could never be. Sam is Dean's purpose..."

As to how the show should end, I can't even bring myself to think about that yet. The story is in full swing right now, and I wish to see it hits even higher notes still. So I'll leave it at that for now...

ETA: I can't wait for more Desolation Angels. I've been checking for its update daily! =p

Edited at 2009-06-18 07:31 pm (UTC)
gaelicspirit
Jun. 18th, 2009 08:12 pm (UTC)
I kinda don't want to see Sam as a "Jedi" any more than I want to see Dean as an archangel.

I agree with you there. His manner of killing demons was as much of the 'Force' as I'd want to see. It just kinda felt a little bit like they forgot about that little aspect in lieu of greater things.

I'd even venture as far to predict he might get his hands on the missing Colt again before S5 ends.

Oh. My. GOD! Girl, I can't believe I completely forgot about the COLT!!! How friggin' cool would it be if he did find it and manage to use it. AWESOME!

Although imo, the love making between her and Dean at the back of the Impala was the most romantic moment on SPN.

WORD.

So I'll leave it at that for now...

That is probably very wise. I think I'll follow in your footsteps. Normally -- and by that I mean the last 4 years -- the thought of the season AFTER the one beginning isn't even a blip on the radar because so far all we've been concerned about is it coming back for one more year. One year at a time. I think the prospect of Season 6 even before Season 5 has started has made me (and probably a fair amount of others) all giddy with possibility. :)

PS
I got your D.A. reviews (thank you!!) and will be replying. My plan is to get chapter 2 done, sit on it while I reply to reviews, read it again and make sure I wasn't talking crazy, then post. This is a wacky story to tell and I want to make sure I don't let anyone down. :)
xwacky
Jun. 18th, 2009 09:41 pm (UTC)
I agree Sam's special powers tend to fizzle on the show. I see it as more of "by design" as opposed to "overlook" on the writer's part. I think the writers strive to make the brothers as normal as possible despite Sam and Dean had both died and brought back to life. Sam's telekinesis power was introduced per storyline requirement. I like it that the writers don't abuse that power. I'm perfectly happy with it only appearing when Sam is convinced his brother is in grave danger, that Dean would die if he doesn't do something about it. It's sort of like a person is able to come up with strength he never thought he possessed when under duress. I'm not ruling out seeing Sam harness his telekinesis power again, but I hope it only reoccurs under similar situation, i.e. when Sam thinks/sees Dean is gonna die...

I'm glad you like my Colt theory. *g*

I just want the writers to concentrate on making S5 good. In my experience, things tend to slide off when the writers/producers start to set their sights on the next project. From the practical perspective, I don't blame them. Everybody is entitled to work on bringing the next paycheck. So if hopes for another season is live and well, then I think they would be more motivated to put in extra effort in making this one good.

Don't worry about replying my comments to your stories. They are my feedback to you how much I enjoyed reading what you wrote. The best reply you can give me in fact is to write more stories/chapters! ;-)
chiiyo86
Jun. 18th, 2009 07:37 pm (UTC)
Oh, thinky thoughts! It keeps us busy while we wait for September 10th.

I think Ruby's telling him that he basically blew his wad when he killed Lilith meant that he's on empty when it comes to the juice...

To me, it sounded more like something temporary. I don't think Sam can't use his powers anymore, because she said that he never really needed the blood to use them. But I agree with you that the addiction was real, and that Sam is not done with withdrawal. I hope that Dean is not done either with his memories from Hell, and that they're going to talk about it again.

I'm with you on the brother vs brother. It was interesting (though very painful!) to watch, but now they need to find each other again and realize that they're stronger together. I sincerely think that Kripke and the writers are clever enough to know that they can't mess too much with the brother's relationship, and I'm very hopeful on this subject.

I don't know how I feel about a season six... On the one hand, I don't want to get disappointed with the show. But on the other hand, I don' t want the season coming to be the last one! Anyway, I know I'll be watching season six if there is one. I just care too much about those Winchesters!

I've tought about it, and I don't think I want a Butch and Sundance ending. Even though we don't see Butch and Sundance die, the pessimistic side of me can't help but think that there is no way they could have make it out alive, and I know I'll be thinking the same thing if SPN ends this way, and it'll make me sad. I understand your reasoning, I just don' t feel the same way. That being said, I'll accept whichever ending Kripke chooses. And there's always fanfic!
gaelicspirit
Jun. 18th, 2009 08:13 pm (UTC)
That being said, I'll accept whichever ending Kripke chooses. And there's always fanfic!

YEP! I said in a reply above, no matter which way it goes, it has been a helluva ride and I haven't regretted one moment I spent watching, thinking about, or writing about the show -- in fanficland or otherwise.

I'm excited to see where it takes us.

Thanks for coming by. :) It was good to chat.
lovinjackson
Jun. 19th, 2009 03:04 am (UTC)
We've had a slight discussion since you posted this on the other site and you know that I understand with alot of what you said in this ... if I was feeling awake enough today I would probably ramble to you in my normal way but i'm beat (and its only 1pm lol) But you also should know that I cant not reply to these lol soooooo i think my withdrawel is getting worse. September needs to come like YESTURDAY!!! And on a side note? I am glad we get the boys back in september because every year its like an early birthday present :P

I agree with you and I have to say I enjoyed reading others comments on this too. I thought that were all well thought ideas and feelings that had me nodding and agreeing for the most part ... okay thats it. I'm done. And now I feel pathetic that I didnt even have the energy to write my own thoughts. *hugs* TGIF!!!!!!!!!

WORD!!
gaelicspirit
Jun. 19th, 2009 03:47 pm (UTC)
You're so funny. Just for that, you get Ryan.

And yeah, it was our conversation about this that prompted me to post here. 'Cause I liked what you had to say. :)

Word, Riggs.
mymuseandi
Jun. 19th, 2009 07:01 am (UTC)
Hi! Is Sept 10 the premiere of season 5?? goodie!! i can't wait!!

Sam's powers - I love powerful!Sam, but i think that he could be powerful without drinking demon's blood, and that Dean would eventually try to talk (or punch) some sense into him before it gets any worse. And i would like for Sam and Dean to not bear any guilt for getting played by both the angels and demons, but i think it would be easier to turn Chuck into a teetotaler than doing that.

Brother vs brother - Yup, no more fighting. At least no more fighting like in season 4. I'd almost totally convinced myself that this season will end up with both boys hating each other and that Kripke made season 5 specially for them to try to repair their relationship. *shudders*

Anna - I like the angel, and her feisty-ness, and i would love to see her come back for another season, but i thought that i would prefer for them to concentrate on her relationship with Castiel rather than Dean. That's not to say that we shouldn't have a repeat of Dean and Anna in the Impala.. :)

Bobby - I don't believe that Bobby loves the two boys equally. I think that he's a bit biased towards Dean, as in i think he loves Dean just a little more than Sam. Which i think is fair. I'd always thought that John loved Sam a little more than Dean, and that Dean loves Sam above anyone, so someone obviously needs to love Dean more that he/she loves Sam. *nods* And no mentioning about Bobby's death! It fills me with dread. And more dread.

Lucifer - Well, i would think that they would cast someone pretty. LOL i mean, he used to be an angel right? Even a fallen angel can be pretty, someone who has a cold and cruel kind of beauty, if you get me. And of course Dean would kill him. Or Sam, i'm not too terribly fussy. Good must always triumph over evil; why would we stand to watch the boys get beaten and battered without seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, ie, Lucifer getting killed??

As to the ending of the whole of Supernatural, well, we'll cross the bridge when it comes to it. I resolutely refused to think of them ending the whole series. Hiding from reality, i know, but i'm happy to stick my head under a rock til the premiere starts.
gaelicspirit
Jun. 19th, 2009 03:49 pm (UTC)
That's not to say that we shouldn't have a repeat of Dean and Anna in the Impala...

Yeah! I mean, c'mon, a girl can dream, right?

And no mentioning about Bobby's death! It fills me with dread. And more dread.

*hangs head* Sorry. Lips are zipped.

Good must always triumph over evil; why would we stand to watch the boys get beaten and battered without seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, ie, Lucifer getting killed...

Couldn't agree more!!!

Thanks so much for coming by, reading, and sharing your thoughts. :)

*hugs*
(Anonymous)
Jun. 19th, 2009 11:24 pm (UTC)
Hi Gaelic,

It was really strange for me to read your thoughts about the ending of the show.

It's something I really try not to think about cause it almost hurts... I just know there won't be a satisfactory ending for me, no matter what happens... I'd hate for them to die (even if rationally I almost agree with your point), hate for them to keep fighting without us being able to follow their journey, hate for them to settle down to normal lifes (not that that'd be plausible in a million years)...

Ugh, I just childishly can't think about it. I'll just go back to pretending there'll be no ending for a little while longer, ok? *feels depressed now*

I'm anxiously waiting for the story to be completed!

have a nice week end,
Clarice
gaelicspirit
Jun. 20th, 2009 02:49 am (UTC)
I'll just go back to pretending there'll be no ending for a little while longer, ok?

Obsolutely okay! I'm so sorry you're now depressed. *is sad*

Just... y'know, totally ignore me. Seriously. I was just rambling and trying to distract myself. Forget the idea of the show ending. Just think about September 10th and the start of next season and all the adventure and wonderful heartache that offers us.

:)
(Anonymous)
Jun. 19th, 2009 11:46 pm (UTC)
Sigh. You're such a DeanGirl.

Blair
gaelicspirit
Jun. 20th, 2009 02:46 am (UTC)
Uh, yeah.

*considers getting DeanGirl tattooed on her back*

*in Gaelic*
arafel979
Jun. 23rd, 2009 04:58 pm (UTC)
I am loving all the spec that's out there. So with you on wanting the brothers fighting together and yes, I want Anna back, too, and YES, YES, YES! to more Dean love scenes!
I wish Sam would lose his powers. I never liked them, but I fear I will be disappointed in this because I think they are a large part of that "15 page Bible" of Kripke's that we hear about. Ah well, if we have to have them, I at least hope they will be something to be used in that "God works in mysterious ways" vein-kind of like something good coming out of an evil act-as we saw in Faith. I LOVE how S4 really brought that episode to mind so many times as that has always been one of a handful of show-defining episodes to me. Such kudos to Kripke and Co for tying things together so well. There are holes here and there, but they did a wonderful job with this, for the most part. Hope it continues into S5.

"And as far as a S6? I really don't know that I'm up for it. I love how this story has been told. How in looking back you can see the plan.

From Mary's horrified expression of realization when she runs back up to Baby Sam's room in the Pilot to S4's In the Beginning when we see her make her deal. From Roy LeGrange saying he looked into Dean's heart and saw a man with a purpose that hasn't been fulfilled to Zach telling Dean that he is destined to take out Lucifer ala Micheal. From Baby Sam tasting demon blood to Big Sam drinking from Ruby. From YED's search for the Special Kid that would open the Devil Gate and free Lilith AND the SK that would defeat Lilith and release Lucifer...

There is a method to the madness that I haven't seen tie a show together like this before. It's captured me and possessed me and catipulted me into storytelling and has been the catalyst for friendships I wouldn't have otherwise had... but it's worn me out. And I... kinda need to know how it ends. Before the end is too lost in the Hollywood Machine to satisfy me.

But... that's just me."

SO MUCH WORD TO THIS! I really hope that by the network trying to eek out a S6(because if Kripke goes, I really get the feeling that the guys wouldn't want to stay, but with their 6 year contracts, they would most likely be obligated to) the story will not be ruined. I say let KRIPKE finish it at the helm-whether in 5 or 6. As for the Butch and Sundance ending...just no. I have always gotten a feeling from this show that originally Dean was meant to be the tragic hero, with Sam carrying on the family business, but I think now that Kripke would have a riot on his hands if he tried to do this-so well-loved has Dean become. I think he will end it with them both still hunting. It is after all, what they do best, and they are both young with plenty of hunting days left in them(and a movie, maybe, too!). Kripke could always give us that ending I first mentioned, just not for a long time yet. Besides, God knows that the river of tears this would cause at this point in time would very likely cause another Great Flood! LOL! Good exchanging words with you again, Sweetness! See you soon!

gaelicspirit
Jun. 26th, 2009 04:00 pm (UTC)
Hi hi hi!!

Okay, first I have to say THANK YOU for coming by to read stuff even when there's no Ramble for an epi. I can't tell you how much I enjoy reading your thoughts and reactions. I was actually a bit sad at the thought that I wouldn't hear from you for several months. And here you are!! *squee!!*

And, I had no idea Kripke had a "15 page Bible"... LAUGH! That's awesome.

I say let KRIPKE finish it at the helm-whether in 5 or 6.

AGREED!!

I have always gotten a feeling from this show that originally Dean was meant to be the tragic hero, with Sam carrying on the family business, but I think now that Kripke would have a riot on his hands if he tried to do this-so well-loved has Dean become. I think he will end it with them both still hunting.

I like how you think, but one of the reasons I am leaning toward the B&S ending simply because the myth-arc for them just leaves me feeling so sad and heavy. IF the "still hunting" was done in such a way that they weren't drowning in the evil of the world and sucked into the seemingly hopeless void of all of that, then I'm totally on board.

I mean, just because angels and demons aren't fighting for dominance in their back yards doesn't mean the boys don't have a job to do. '

I just want there to be hope. Like at the end of Season Two, minus the whole impending deal. When Dean, bloody, looks up at Sam with that crazy-ass grin on his face and says, "We've got work to do."

I could deal with that. I don't *want* to deal with them forever fighting with no reward or peace.

sighs....
mtee
Jun. 25th, 2009 03:19 pm (UTC)
WONDERFUL THOUGHTS. But killing Bobby??? I agree with your thinking -- but my heart says, no -- you can't take the only person they have left -- their only anchor.

That site sounds wonderful, can you give the link -- is it private or anything like that?
I don't always have the thinky thoughts, but I love to read everyone else's.
gaelicspirit
Jun. 26th, 2009 04:03 pm (UTC)
Nope, it's another fan site. Here's the link:

http://www.devotedfansnetwork.com/page.php?id=supernatural

I don't want Bobby to die... *sniff*

But I wouldn't be surprised if he did.
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